JT4x4
The Mud Pit => Wrenching => Topic started by: Axle on January 12, 2008, 05:49:24 PM
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Anyone think they might have a few minutes this afternoon or evening to come over and help me get the axle off of the trailer and onto the jack stands? I would greatly appreciate it. We are about to leave and go pick it up! I'll post pics when we get home.
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Call me when you're ready.
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call me. I'll pm you my #.
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Ladies and gentlemen. I give you Axle's axle! ;D
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle.jpg)
Thanks in advance to Mike and Brian who are on their way over to help unload it. As well as Jeremy for the use of the trailer.
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I can't wait to see it in your rig.
Calling all dana 35ers, get his axle shafts while you can for trail spare and if you think you dont need them then ask him to tell you a good wheeling story.
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people with 35s shouldn't need trail spares, because they shouldn't be on the trail in the first place.
:)
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in all seriousness though, I know a guy who is running, 37"s on his Dana 35 with chromoly shafts and is no stranger to extreme wheeling
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I'm planning on going to 37's next year, but only if I can get chromoly's front and rear. That's why I'm going with 4.88's instead of 4.56's. So here is my plan of attack:
Phase 1: break down and strip the 8.8.
Phase 2: remove the d35 from big yeller and strip needed parts.
Phase 3: weld brackets to the 8.8, and route brake system.
Phase 4: bolt the 8.8 in under the TJ and take her to CTjeep for regearing.
Phase 5: return one day to OFR and get revenge. ;D
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Ok, so tonight I got about half of phase 1 done. I pulled the calipers, rotors, hard brake line, carrier pin, shafts, and the dust shields/shoe brakes.
Found out that the 8.8 is not only disk brake, but it has shoes on the inside of the rotors ??? . They were easy to remove, though. 4 bolts on the ends of the hubs and the whole assembly comes off.
I tried doing a little grinding, but it is late and I don't want to make too much noise. That, and I really need a 3m mask because of all the surface rust.
How many of you guys can say you got to work on your new project on your anniversary! And your wife WASN'T mad at you!? That's right, boys, I said wasn't! Just a reminder to me of how awesome my wife is. Honestly, I never would have thought she'd be so supportive of this hobby, but she definitly proved me wrong! ;)
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is it possible the shoes were from the parking brake?
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Probably.
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congrats. did you get pictures of each step.
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I haven't heard of disc brakes that didn't have pads on both sides of the rotor.
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Ok, so tonight I got about half of phase 1 done. I pulled the calipers, rotors, hard brake line, carrier pin, shafts, and the dust shields/shoe brakes.
Found out that the 8.8 is not only disk brake, but it has shoes on the inside of the rotors ??? . I would have to see what you are talking about but disc brakes have pads on both sides of the rotors. They were easy to remove, though. 4 bolts on the ends of the hubs and the whole assembly comes off.
I tried doing a little grinding, but it is late and I don't want to make too much noise. That, and I really need a 3m mask because of all the surface rust. Wrap an old white t-shirt around your face and go to town.
How many of you guys can say you got to work on your new project on your anniversary! And your wife WASN'T mad at you!? That's right, boys, I said wasn't! Just a reminder to me of how awesome my wife is. Honestly, I never would have thought she'd be so supportive of this hobby, but she definitly proved me wrong! ;)Give it time brother all of our wives were supportive when it was still just a hobby, it's when it became part of our lifestyle that the support slowly starts to go away.
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About the pads, I'm not talking about pads on both sides of the rotors. There is a drum system on the inside of the rotor where it attaches to the wheel studs. I think Jeremy is right, though, it's probably for the parking brake. I thought about taking pics of what I have done so far, but I am going to wait until after I finish stripping the old brackets off.
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If this is what you are talking about then yes it is for the e-brake.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Brian%20O/Brian%20O%20Pics/ford88_ebrake_shoes4_720.jpg)
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Yup, that's it. I'm going to have to replace all of the pads, both the shoes and the rotor pads. I'm also going to have to clean up the rotors, they are pretty rusted from sitting so long. It's just surface stuff, but I don't want to throw on new pads and use them to strip the rust when I brake. I don't know, I'm just picky like that.
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Dos Axle,
Have you attempted to salvage a bracket off the 8.8 yet to see how feasible it will be taking them off your D35??? Just curious...
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Well, I will attempt some more cutting today, but I didn't really get into it last night because of noise. Cheeks has a dremel tool I can borrow for more accurate and smaller cutting. The 8.8 brackets aren't getting any TLC. They're just getting chopped and ground down. If I can't reuse my d35 brackets, I already have a backup plan. I just won't be able to do anything about it until tax return. That's why it's going to be a while before I take the d35 out from under big yeller. I'm going to wait until closer to tax return so I'm not out of my rig for an extended period.
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are the new brackets really that expensive?
personally I wouldn't waste any time trying to reuse the existing brackets. also, if you don't, it will make the actual swap and vehicle downtime much less.
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are the new brackets really that expensive?
personally I wouldn't waste any time trying to reuse the existing brackets. also, if you don't, it will make the actual swap and vehicle downtime much less.
He said it would be like $300 for everything. I would at least try to reuse them for that price.
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the shoes are for the e-brake/parking brake. commonly refered to as a "mini-drum"
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pa-rum-pum-pum-pum
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Yes, if I have to buy new brackets, I am going with the ones from M.O.R.E. which are $300 plus shipping. They are made specifically for the 8.8. Although, since I don't need the brackets for the track bar or sway bar, I will call them first and try to negotiate a smaller price for not purchasing a full kit. On top of those brackets, I still need to order the weld on third member bracket from Rock Krawler for my upper control arms. That is another hundo plus shipping.
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hundo?
just kidding. i like it you should add it to the rich'n thread. lol
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Well, I finished cutting all of the brackets off this morning. I'm a little concerned about the fact that I put some scars in the tubing, but I don't think it will be an issue. Now I have to ground down the left overs, sand it, and throw some primer on it until I'm ready to weld. I have a strong feeling that I'm just going to order new brackets. I used 7 wheels to cut through the stuff, and it looks terrible. I'll probably spend more time trying to clean everything up than I did cutting off the brackets. I'll post a pic when I get home today.
Those welds were super top quality, which is what I'm going to need when I put on those brackets. I know Scott's welder is plenty to do the welds, but it's going to need gas for the shielding to make the beads strong enough. Could someone please post a link to a place where I can get the proper gas? I'd appreciate it.
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http://www.abcodelivers.com/site/page48.cfm <--Try them for the gas. Their customer service is great, I use em to fill my powertank. If you need help let me know.
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Thanks!
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Well, I finished cutting all of the brackets off this morning. I'm a little concerned about the fact that I put some scars in the tubing, but I don't think it will be an issue. Now I have to ground down the left overs, sand it, and throw some primer on it until I'm ready to weld. I have a strong feeling that I'm just going to order new brackets. I used 7 wheels to cut through the stuff, and it looks terrible. I'll probably spend more time trying to clean everything up than I did cutting off the brackets. I'll post a pic when I get home today.
Those welds were super top quality, which is what I'm going to need when I put on those brackets. I know Scott's welder is plenty to do the welds, but it's going to need gas for the shielding to make the beads strong enough. Could someone please post a link to a place where I can get the proper gas? I'd appreciate it.
I am looking at getting a bottle of gas for my welder too, Justin. Not sure how it works though, if I just show up and buy a 5lb. bottle or if I need to bring my own bottle for them to fill. Anybody know?? If I need to buy my own, I have found them on ebay for cheap. And they are certified for 10 years because they are new. Might be the best way to go...When are you looking to start getting some welding done?
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I think they do rental, trade ins and filling, i dont know which route would be the cheapest.
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Not until I get my tax return back, so I can order all of the parts. January 22nd!!! I'll be doing them online that day, but it will be a week or so before I get the money. Man, it just can't get here fast enough! ;D
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yeah, i think that ease of new brackets might be worth all the head ache of cleaning them up and filling in holes from miss cutting.
dunno.
7 blades wow
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Here's a before pic with all of the attachments, brackets, and cables.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/Behindthechurch1-13-08001.jpg)
Here's two after's with everything removed.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle001.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle005.jpg)
Now I need to grind and sand it. Then I'll throw on a light coat of primer until it's time for welding.
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sure is purty!
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My poor garage isn't, anymore. :'(
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I know Scott's welder is plenty to do the welds, but it's going to need gas for the shielding to make the beads strong enough. Could someone please post a link to a place where I can get the proper gas? I'd appreciate it.
Justin,
I found out where I can get a bottle of gas. Don't sweat over that. When do you think you're going to be ready for putting brackets on? I'm guessing somewhere right around the first of Feb right?
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I know Scott's welder is plenty to do the welds, but it's going to need gas for the shielding to make the beads strong enough. Could someone please post a link to a place where I can get the proper gas? I'd appreciate it.
Justin,
I found out where I can get a bottle of gas. Don't sweat over that. When do you think you're going to be ready for putting brackets on? I'm guessing somewhere right around the first of Feb right?
Yup. As soon as I get my tax money, I'll be parting with it :'( . I still haven't decided what I'm doing about the brackets yet, but I'm leaning towards ordering the new ones. I'll have to get with Cheeks on that one. Or, if someone knows someone with a plasma cutter, that would help a lot. As far as your supplies go, I would like to pay for what I use. I'm no welder (obviously), but I'm pretty sure these welds are going to take a lot of wire and gas. When we get closer to game day, we should get together to get the supplies.
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It really shouldn't take that much. A roll of wire is like $10 and a bottle of gas is $34 so it isn't expensive. In fact I bet we'll barely use half of that for the whole job. We'd have plenty to weld the rest of your control arms...LOL
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I know what I said earlier about your welder being enough, but given my lack of knowledge on the matter, are you sure your welder is big enough for a job this serious? A control arm break was bad enough, I really don't want something as catastrophic as the bracket snapping off.
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the part I really want to know is ... once you get this new axle in, are you gonna wheel it like you stole it?
:)
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I know what I said earlier about your welder being enough, but given my lack of knowledge on the matter, are you sure your welder is big enough for a job this serious? A control arm break was bad enough, I really don't want something as catastrophic as the bracket snapping off.
The rating on the welder is more than enough. I can burn through 5/16" steel with it. I'm betting your brackets are probably less than 1/4". It will be fine. And the gas only makes the weld look prettier, not stronger. It basically blows the impurities out of the way of the molten metal so it flows nice and flat instead of spattering. I'm going with 75% Argon/ 25% CO2 for the shielding gas too, nicer than just CO2. In the end, I'm sure you will be happy with it. Just make sure you have all the math figured out right because once its welded, its there. I don't want to try to get them off if it wrong. Measure 5 times, burn once...or something like that...LOL
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you still need to borrow a grinder? I'll throwit in my jeep and when you get off work come down to where i work and I'll get them to you. x-3318 if you forgot where that is. I have the duties tomarrow >:(
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you still need to borrow a grinder? I'll throwit in my jeep and when you get off work come down to where i work and I'll get them to you. x-3318 if you forgot where that is. I have the duties tomarrow >:(
Thanks anyway Reg, but I bought a grinder and a few wheels to go with my welder... You stand duty an awful lot...
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kinda looking forward to the boat... less duty.
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poor reg (sniff)
the part I really want to know is ... once you get this new axle in, are you gonna wheel it like you stole it?
:)
notice he didnt answer the question?
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Thanks, Scott. I plan on measuring and remeasuring. Also, once I'm sure the measurements are correct, I'm going to jb weld the brackets on there and do a "test swap" to verify everything fits like it should. Basically, just line everything up. If it fits right, then we weld it, and we're good to go. The jb weld will melt off as you get near it with the welder. At least that's what one write up had and he said it worked great.
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Sounds like a good idea. Even it it didn't melt, once you got a few tack welds, you could grind/cut off the JB
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just tack weld it in a couple of spots that are easy to grind back off to check the fit the jb weld would mess with welding it up properly
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that would be my thought too
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I agree with tacking them in place, I'm not sure the JB weld would even hold well enough to get a test fit. especially if it fits tight and you need a bit of muscle to get it just right, the JB might just come right off. I'd tack it and then you could do whatever you wanted to get it right and we would go from there. It wouldn't be that bad trying to buzz off a tack weld either.
Also, I was thinking with the limited adjustment of your passenger side control arm, you have to get your brackets close enough to be somewhere in the middle of the top adjuster because you can't adjust the bottom anymore. Welding it removed half of your "adjustment window". I'm sure you have thought about this already, I was just brainstorming about it last night... ::)
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not to mention, burning JB weld might not be the best to breath in.
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Good news!!! I called MORE and asked about purchasing only the brackets I need. I got the answer I was looking for, so that will save me some money there. He didn't say how much, but I'm hoping he'll drop the price from $300 to $200.
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jb weld is not structural... really it just fills gasp, like missing threads, holes in the oil pan, etc. just tack weld them in place and then finish it up when you have it lined up correctly. buy a tape measure ::)
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Yeah, I know. I have a tape measure, and Doball has the angle finder, so I've got the measurement tools I need. It will be easy getting the pinion angle, and I've got all the measurements I need from Stu's Offroad. Really, all I'm waiting on is MONEY! It's agonizing to say the least. In the mean time, I'm just pecking away at stripping off the old paint and surface rust.
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Axle,
Are you planning on painting the whole axle after all the brackets are welded on? Are you priming it until things get all ready for paint? If so, please leave a decent BARE METAL spot for my ground clamp. No primer or anything. The better the current flow, the more stable of the arc melting the metal. Makes for nicer welds... Thanks!
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justin,
you're doing fine.
now, all you need is to get a plum bob, a sextant, and a lazer studfinder with a bias axle level so you can hang everything with lazer precision.lol
oh yeah,
CUT IT!!!!!
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I think I will leave it bare until after the welding is done. If any rust shows up between now and then, I'll just scrape it off before I paint.
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you should herculine it ... that'd be sweet! (after the welding is done of course)
is it going to be sitting outside for the next month?
personally, I would prime it all, especially the parts that you've ground down to bare metal (where the brackets were) ... you can always give it a quick hit with the grinder to get back to metal when welding time comes
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i agree w/ al. bare metal rusts quick here, esp if the humidity is high.
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powdercoat it!!!!!!!!
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powdercoat it!!!!!!!!
We used to have access to that (hence how my bumpers f/r and my sliders got done ;D )
BUT
Brian moved away last month, so no more hookups in that dept :-[
Anyone have any others?
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I also agree with Al, besides you are going to have to grind off the primer where the welds are going to be to ensure you get good welds.
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It's nice and dry in my garage. Just cold.
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More progress today.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle008b.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle009b.jpg)
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That looks cool! Forget about powercoat, get it chromed! Then you will be "big pimp'n"
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hahaha, that'd be SWEET!!!
maybe even gold plated!
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with chrome dif spinners.
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with chrome dif spinners.
on 13" wire rims
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dont forget the whitewalls!
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Here's my laundry list for the swap and upgrades. Pretty generic, but it helps me plan where the pennies will roll.
Please deposit .02 here:
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go ebay! save lots of money, it looks like
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Sweet, I finall got to order some parts today.
Auburn electric lockers front and rear
8.8 bracket kit with yoke adapter
JB Conversions short cv shaft
Yukon 4.88 R&P, Dana 30
Tomorrow...
Badapple diff covers front and rear
Super 8.8 kit
Third member bracket for upper control arms from Rock Krawler
4.88 R&P, 8.8
;D
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sweet good for you dude. dont forget to invest. the dollar is dropping............
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Auburn electric lockers front and rear
NICE!
JB Conversions short cv shaft
Why? Didn't you just have your cv shaft rebuilt?
Badapple diff covers front and rear
do they make a real cover, or just the protector ring?
check out SOLID diff covers.
Super 8.8 kit
VERY NICE INDEED!
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The cv shaft is actually the yoke on the NP231. There is a standard sized one on there now, so I am replacing it with the super short for a gain of about an 1" and an angle reduction to boot. I really like the SOLID and Rock Krusher diff covers, but they aren't in my budget. The Badapples are only rings, but they are only $55 each! I did find a Rock Krusher diff cover for the 8.8 on ebay for $65 including shipping, so I am considering that versus the ring cover. I might do that instead.
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FYI: in case you weren't aware. SOLID is the same thing as the old Rock Krusher.
They're only $99 ... when you're spending $55 for just a ring, is that really that much more?
The other thing I would suggest, because I have personally fallen in love with them, is lubelocker gaskets.
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You mean like RTV? That's what I use now. It's great when you're like me and you break things alot. Other than that, that stuff leaks like crazy!
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http://www.lubelocker.com/
AWESOME!
I've got them on both my diffs, and my transmission fluid pan.
Makes getting in and out a lot cleaner and easier, and no leaks.
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Thanks, I think I'll try those out. Not too bad on the price. I always carry RTV on the trail anyway, so if for some reason I can't reuse the gasket, then I have a backup. I must say, RTV is a pain.
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they've got a metal core, so I'd imagine they take a lot of abuse before they can't be used anymore, but I haven't owned mine long enough to really say.
I always end up making a huge mess with rtv, and end up with leaks afterwards anyway. :)
but I'm a slob.
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What kind of time frame are we looking at for welding the brackets on and such?
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The brackets could be here by the end of the week, but probably not until sometime next week. As soon as I get the brackets, I'll post it up and see what everyone's schedule's can support.
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What do you guys think about this...
I can either get Chromoly shafts for the Dana 30 and a new 1310 cv drive shaft for the rear
or
A special drive shaft from Carolina that they say is pretty much bullet proof. It's some kind of Toyota conversion that is supposed to be top shelf.
I just can't do both, unfortunatly.
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Chromoly shafts for the Dana 30 and a new 1310 cv drive shaft for the rear
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i would say rear drive shaft. you up graded the rear axle. and you want your drive shaft to be able to keey up with your axles. like this one guy we knew who got d60 rock crusher BLAH BLAH BLAH 13,000.00 dollars later. first time out on the trail, and ka-pow. busted drive shaft. still had stock on there.
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d30 shafts and 1310
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Go for the D30 Shafts Axle. Since you are putting the Super kit in the rear, it only makes sense to do the front now too......
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i would say rear drive shaft. you up graded the rear axle. and you want your drive shaft to be able to keey up with your axles. like this one guy we knew who got d60 rock crusher BLAH BLAH BLAH 13,000.00 dollars later. first time out on the trail, and ka-pow. busted drive shaft. still had stock on there.
Jon is right and it was pretty funny to see the biggest jeep in groton getting pulled out by One-eye's not far from stock Jeep. The video is under winch in the trading post. But also from what Al has said it sound like the Dana 30 shafts are definately worth the investment.
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Thanks for the help, guys. I found a set of alloy usa chromoly's online for $475 and free shipping. They're normally almost $600 everywhere else. So, after I put the new t-case yoke on and I can get a measurement, then I'll call Carolina and order my new driveshaft.
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Sweet ;)
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Thanks for the help, guys. I found a set of alloy usa chromoly's online for $475 and free shipping. They're normally almost $600 everywhere else. So, after I put the new t-case yoke on and I can get a measurement, then I'll call Carolina and order my new driveshaft.
thats awesome
where the monkey?
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where the monkey?
(http://www.cave76.org/forums/images/smiles/monkey.gif)
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New problem... I got my new weld on cradle from Rock Krawler today and did a test fit. The breather tube and brake line holder are in the way on either side. The brake line holder won't be an issue, I can just cut that off. The breather tube on the other hand... It talks about this problem in the write up, but it wasn't because of a cradle, but the sway bar bracket or something. It's going to be tough filling the tube with weld and then cutting it off. Fill it too much, and you invade the axle shaft area. Don't fill it enough, and you have a hole in the axle. ???
I might be able to cut an area out of the cradle to be able to leave the fitting there and get a hose to it. Either way it's going to be a pain!
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New problem... I got my new weld on cradle from Rock Krawler today and did a test fit. The breather tube and brake line holder are in the way on either side. The brake line holder won't be an issue, I can just cut that off. The breather tube on the other hand... It talks about this problem in the write up, but it wasn't because of a cradle, but the sway bar bracket or something. It's going to be tough filling the tube with weld and then cutting it off. Fill it too much, and you invade the axle shaft area. Don't fill it enough, and you have a hole in the axle. ???
I might be able to cut an area out of the cradle to be able to leave the fitting there and get a hose to it. Either way it's going to be a pain!
Is this cradle you speak of another term for axle truss??? How about a picture?
We'll figure it out. I can fill a hole with weld, that's no problem. I would think notching your cradle would be a better option though...Leave the axle tube alone... Just my .02
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I'm at work right now, I'll take a pic when I get home so everyone can see it. I'll say this, it's friggin beefy! It's got to be thicker than 1/4" steel. I agree that cutting would be the best option, and not moving the breather tube. But I need something other than a 4 1/2" cutting wheel to do it. A cutting torch or plasma cutter would be really nice right about now. If anyone has a hook up on something like that, I would greatly appreciate it if I could use it.
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if it's something where you can get away with like a simple v-notch, just use a sawzall
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Oh, I almost forgot! Give me a few minutes and I'll post a pic of the new cradle.
Here's the cradle and the problem...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/Cradle001a.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/Cradle002a.jpg)
Obviously, if that is where the cradle was actually going to sit, there really wouldn't be an issue. Since it is going to have to move forward when I set the pinion angle, something has to give. I'm thinking about trying to cut an opening back there by the circle. That's some heavy duty steel, so I'm really not that worried about messing up the integrity too much.
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I agree with Scott leave the tube alone and just notch out by the hole for the breather tube.
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damn red x's. i hate photo bucket
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Oh, I almost forgot! Give me a few minutes and I'll post a pic of the new cradle.
Here's the cradle and the problem...
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/Cradle001a.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/Cradle002a.jpg)
Obviously, if that is where the cradle was actually going to sit, there really wouldn't be an issue. Since it is going to have to move forward when I set the pinion angle, something has to give. I'm thinking about trying to cut an opening back there by the circle. That's some heavy duty steel, so I'm really not that worried about messing up the integrity too much.
If you can cut it out neat enough, I can weld it back in somewhere near the notch, just in a different position or angle to put back some strength.
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is it level in the pic, or is it angled up. is there a possibility that when you set the pinion angle that the breather will be behind the truss??
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I'm pretty sure the tube will be right in the way. The cradle was angled a little back to fit over the tube when I took the picture. It will have to be angled forward when I set the pinion angle. I think Scott has the right idea.
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why not tap a new breather tube it would be quicker. that way you can run an breather extension for mud.
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Got my lockers, 8.8 diff cover, and the dana 30 gears today. Now if I can just get those damn brackets! ::)
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(http://www.dvd.net.au/movies/j/07235-4.jpg)
SHOW ME THE BRACKETS!!!
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lol. sweet
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Got my brackets today!!!
Scott, have I told you how nice the FJ looks recently? ;D
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you gonna have that axle in before saturday? :)
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Got my brackets today!!!
Scott, have I told you how nice the FJ looks recently? ;D
Actually Justin you haven't! LOL ;D
So you have the upper 3-link mount/truss, 2 lower control arm mounts, 2 coil buckets, and 2 shock mounts right? Did I miss anything?
Also, I would like to suggest getting all the brackets done before installing the gears, locker, shafts, etc...its easier to move around and turn over and such. How close are you to laying things out?
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I don't have anything going on tonight if you aren't busy. I just need to stop by Doball's place and grab the angle finder to set the pinion angle. Other than that, we could do the tacking tonight, but I would rather do the test fit either at the hobby shop. Or, when the weather gets better, we could do it at my place.
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I'm just curious here (trying hard to cause trouble) ... what do you expect to do with an angle finder, exactly?
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I'm just curious here (trying hard to cause trouble) ... what do you expect to do with an angle finder, exactly?
Basically,
The angle finder is actually(or the ones I've seen) magnetic and can exactly tell you what your driveshaft angle is and then, along with your pinion angle, you can determine and set the safe operating range of your u-joint depending on the application.
Here's basically how: I would put his jeep on level ground, put the pinion angle gauge on the axle and see what its at right now because he's not going higher with the lift so it should be set the same. The angle gauge will show what we need to set the 8.8 at to resemble its installed position. Then all the other brackets are set to true level (coil buckets, 3-link truss, and the lower control arm mounts). After being welded, the brackets should set the pinion angle damn near exact and, if needed, the lower control arms can be used to fine tune the angle.
This is a good writeup on driveline stuff...
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml (http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/Driveline-101.shtml)
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ah, okay, I was under the impression that he believed that his was not currently set right.
for a CV driveshaft, the pinion angle is supposed to be such that the pinion yoke is pointed directly at the tcase output yoke. I wouldn't think that and angle finder would be much help with that, except as you say, assuming that the current one is properly setup.
Ahh, I see, that article is telling you how to do math based on the measurements, even if it's not currently right ... I guess that makes sense.
A few things however that need to be taken into consideration are:
aren't you replacing your tcase yoke with a shorter sye?
is the distance from the axle tube center (or possibly spring perches) to the pinion yoke on the 8.8 the same as on your D35?
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Yes, I am getting a short output yoke for the T-case. It's only going to shave off about 5/8" of length. From the writeup's I've read on the swap, everyone uses the same drive shaft they used for the D35. The hard part is going to be getting the position and measurements of the brackets exactly where they need to be.
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Yes, yes it is.
:)
It's certainly more than I'd have the patience for. :)
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is the distance from the axle tube center (or possibly spring perches) to the pinion yoke on the 8.8 the same as on your D35?
That's a good question Al....Axle? I'm sure it would be easier to determine this with his D35 off the rig and set next to the 8.8 however I'm not sure he want to remove the 35 until the 8.8 is ready to go on so....measure 7 different times and ways, burn once.
Also, I think the coil seats HAVE to land on the center of the axle tube for strength purposes. If the 8.8 is longer than the D35 (center of axle tube to pinion nose) than he may need a new driveshaft. Axle, have you thought about this??
Simply put, the coils buckets must remain in the same relative location to the frame mounted ones (directly below), which determines where the coil buckets should be,(centered on the axle tube) which will determine where the pinion actually lands. I would think the 8.8 has a longer pinion "nose" than the 35 so with a SYE, he MIGHT get away with his current driveshaft...*Yoda* Factors, there are so many of...
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*Yoda* Factors, there are so many of...
Hrm, I think this should probably be, "Factors, so many there are"
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Yes, I have thought about this issue. So, the solution I discussed with Carolina driveshaft is to wait until the 8.8 is under the jeep and measure the distance with the new output yoke on the t-case. Which, I don't have yet, because I need to pull the driveshaft and the old output yoke and measure the spline length of the yoke. Then, I can call JB conversions and they will send me the appropriate yoke. Also, as well as welding on the brackets, I have to weld some nuts and tabs for the brake system.
Scott, do you think you will have time tonight for us to start on this? Say, 1800? I could try for 1630 if that is too late to start. I don't expect to get everything done at once, just start chipping away at it.
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I wasn't speaking so much out of concern for your driveshaft length, as I was out of how these differences effect the proper pinion angle.
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Scott, do you think you will have time tonight for us to start on this? Say, 1800? I could try for 1630 if that is too late to start. I don't expect to get everything done at once, just start chipping away at it.
You have a PM
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talking with Pete from CTAXLE, he said that as long as the pinion angle is dead nutz on the axle, you dont have too much to worry about with the drive shaft angle (unless severely extreme). with that, i totally understand the importance of setting up proper drive angles and such.
good luck
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nobody likes dead nutz
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talking with Pete from CTAXLE, he said that as long as the pinion angle is dead nutz on the axle, you dont have too much to worry about with the drive shaft angle (unless severely extreme). with that, i totally understand the importance of setting up proper drive angles and such.
good luck
Hot Rod, define dead nutz please. Parralel with the ground? Parralel with the driveshaft angle? And it isn't supposed to be a perfect straight line angle through the driveshaft into the pinion. There is supposed to be like a 3-8 degree difference I think, it provides for proper motion of the u-joint keeping it lubricated...
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And it isn't supposed to be a perfect straight line angle through the driveshaft into the pinion.
it is my understanding that it is.
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I remember someone telling me that a while back but I've been wrong before. Does that link I posted have anything to say? I didn't read the whole thing....I was at work...
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I know I've posted this before, but it may have been before the forum got reset, I'm not sure.
I think most wheelers consider tom woods to be the god of everything driveshaft.
http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html (http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html)
(http://www.4xshaft.com/images/cv_angle.gif)
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dead nutz = 90 angle = shimmed properly.
Al, drawing pretty much sums it up. i have 3 bends/axis points in my drive line.
as long as the pinion angle is "dead nutz" and the Xfer case shaft is straight, all the cardian and u joints will align.
course, clocking the axle will def help with getting as straight of a drive line as possible.
not that i have ever done it, i just pay attention for just in case.
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Dang it! The Super 8.8 system is on back order from Superior. 4WD.com says it probably won't ship to them until the 20th or 21st, and then they will ship it to me. At least they are only in Ohio and not California or something. Problem is, if I don't get the jeep to CTaxle before the end of Feb, I'll be out of my jeep until the end of March!!! :o
:'( That would suck.
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so sorry. that does suck.
well at least you didnt order a lift kit that was advertised to fit wrong years.
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Sorry for the last minute post... Tomorrow night around 1800, Scott and Alex, and possibly Rich, are coming over to help me begin the axle swap. We are going to be tacking the brackets in place. If it's feasable, I would like to try and at least get the D35 out from under the jeep. If someone wouldn't mind letting me borrow a couple of large jack stands or if anyone has some extra wood laying around, I could pick it up after 1300 tomorrow. If I can do anything else after tomorrow night, it will be Sunday. But I'll have to talk more with Scott before I can post anything up about it.
Anyway, all are welcome and I think we are planning on making it a late night depending on how things go. Yes, I know this is bad timing because of the run Saturday, but like I said before, if I don't get the jeep to ctaxle before the end of Feb, I'm screwed until late March. That's just too damn long without Big Yeller. I'm already going through withdrawls! I can only take so much driving of the Suburban Assault Vehicle. So, I have to make progress whenever and where ever I can. Pm me for directions if you need them.
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Wish I could help but I have Duty tomorrow.
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Damn you people and your DUTY!!! ;D
Are you three section? At least you'll have the weekend to yourself! :)
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If Jon says it's ok, I can free up the set of his I've been latched on to for a while... I just need help swaping out his stands with my smaller ones.
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Damn you people and your DUTY!!! ;D
Are you three section? At least you'll have the weekend to yourself! :)
no we are 4 section.
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Sweet, that's even better than 4 section!
Cool, Reg, I'll pm Jon and see what he says. What time will you be free tomorrow? I should get out at 1300, but then I have to be headed to Misty's ultrasound by 1350. After that, I'm not free again until after 1800 :-\.
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Sweet, that's even better than 4 section!
Cool, Reg, I'll pm Jon and see what he says. What time will you be free tomorrow? I should get out at 1300, but then I have to be headed to Misty's ultrasound by 1350. After that, I'm not free again until after 1800 :-\.
i won't know until tomarrow. I'll call when i am headed home.
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Just reposting this here since the thread added another page and I want to make sure people are able to see it.
Sorry for the last minute post... Tomorrow night around 1800, Scott and Alex, and possibly Rich, are coming over to help me begin the axle swap. We are going to be tacking the brackets in place. If it's feasable, I would like to try and at least get the D35 out from under the jeep. If someone wouldn't mind letting me borrow a couple of large jack stands or if anyone has some extra wood laying around, I could pick it up after 1300 tomorrow. If I can do anything else after tomorrow night, it will be Sunday. But I'll have to talk more with Scott before I can post anything up about it.
Anyway, all are welcome and I think we are planning on making it a late night depending on how things go. Yes, I know this is bad timing because of the run Saturday, but like I said before, if I don't get the jeep to ctaxle before the end of Feb, I'm screwed until late March. That's just too damn long without Big Yeller. I'm already going through withdrawls! I can only take so much driving of the Suburban Assault Vehicle. So, I have to make progress whenever and where ever I can. Pm me for directions if you need them.
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if you need another hand, let me know, my GF will be babysitting for a friend :-\ not my choice on how to spend a friday night
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go for it.
you need my high lift?
i have wood also just incase anyone was wondering. you DID ask justin.....
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go for it.
you need my high lift?
i have wood also just incase anyone was wondering. you DID ask justin.....
Yes, Hot-Rod, I did ask about your wood. ::)
Thanks for the help last night from Scott, Alex, and Rich. We got all of the bracket's tacked onto the axle and it looks great! Only problem is that the UCA truss needs to be shifted to the rear to match the 16 degree pinion angle. It should have been set with the pinion angle at zero and the truss at zero. Oops. I'll grind it off today and maybe I can get help tomorrow to tack it back on. Then, I can proceed with the test fit. Alex and I already pulled the D35 out, and we figured out an easy way to do the test fit. I just have to refit that truss. Anyway, once Scott get's back from travel next week, he'll finish the beads and make everything solid.
So if anyone wants to help tomorrow, preferably a welder ::), just let me know. If no one has the time, it's cool. Scott and I can finish it when he gets back. Oh yeah, parts are going up in the Trading Post.
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Only problem is that the UCA truss needs to be shifted to the rear to match the 16 degree pinion angle. It should have been set with the pinion angle at zero and the truss at zero. Oops.
I'm not sure I understand, but if you're saying what I think you're saying, wouldn't it be stronger the way you have it (I'm picturing that it is currently setup perpendicular to the ground?) than if you clock it at an angle (perpendicular to the pinion?) and shouldn't it not matter if you have adjustable control arms?
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I think I agree with Al. If that's the truss that your upper CA's attach to then I believe it should be perpendicular to the ground/frame not the pinion. If you rotate it back 16deg then your upper CA's won't reach. If you do have enough to adjust them out 2-4 inches I'm, guessing that they will be past (aft of) the center point of the axle tube, Then I really wonder about how that will affect the safe handling of your rig on the road, and the proper operation of the entire rear suspension under extreme flex.
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No, I had it wrong last night. The instructions say (and show a picture ::) ) to weld the cradle perpendicular to the pinion. That way, the cradle is at the 16 degree angle with the pinion. When Alex and I tried to do the test fit last night, the uca's were way too long, and definitly not adjustable to shorten them. Trust me, once you see it, it'll make more sense.
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Are you doing the axle job at the hobby shop? I'm stuck on-or-near base this weekend anyway (duty) so I might drop by and get in your way - I mean, uh, help out.
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No, it's at my place. I'll send you a pm for directions. I'm not really messing with the axle today, unless you know how to weld. And in that case, come on over! Tomorrow is when I am planning on repositioning the truss and doing another test fit. That's if there is anyone available to help. Today, I already knocked off the truss and cleaned up the axle, and this afternoon I'm going to work on my sliders some more.
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Stupid rain! >:(
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I am doing wedding stuff today. :( Maybe next time I can help.
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It's no big deal. It's Sunday and I know people are probably recouping from yesterday ;D. Those sliders are keeping me busy anyhow. I misaligned the drivers side slider, so now I get to drill new holes. :-\ Oops.
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Got the sliders on today. Scott came by tonight and tacked on the uca cradle. Now I'm ready for another test fit. As long as the test fit goes well, Scott should be doing the final burning next weekend.
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cool. glad to hear that everything is getting put together rather quickly.
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Anyone have some free time tonight to help me do a test fit? Yeah, the weather won't be the greatest, but that doesn't bother me if it doesn't bother who ever wants to help! ;)
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Let me see what the woman has going on. I think she is gone for the night so I will repost again in about 30 minutes.
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One-eye, you have been pm'd. 8)
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The test fit went great! After everything was finally set in place, I raised the axle to normal (or as close as I could) ride height and checked the pinion angle. It was about 17.5. I also checked the driveshaft and I'm glad JB Conversions is sending me the shorter yoke. The driveshaft didn't have much compression left. I think after everything is bolted back together, I might have to adjust the upper control arms to increase the pinion angle just a bit, because 17.5 just didn't look quite good enough. In this case, low is good, because I can lengthen the control arms to increase the angle. So, burn baby burn!!! Hopefully Sunday Scott will be able to do the final burn and then she'll get bolted under the jeep.
Axle swap this Sunday! ;D
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sexy
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Hey, just make sure when you adjust them there control arms make sure that you tighten them all the way down. You don't want one of them breaking on you while you are on the highway do ya? Wait a second........divert you eyes to the avatar...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Axle swap this Sunday! ;D
stupid duty :'(
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Hopefully Sunday Scott will be able to do the final burn and then she'll get bolted under the jeep.
Axle swap this Sunday! ;D
Ok. How long will the burn take? Because I have to give honest warning here: I was out of town all last week for a funeral. Got into town at 9 pm Sunday (and even loaned Scott out as soon as I got back in town, and right then for a fast burn run at your house Axle before we even went home :-* lol), and took Scott to the airport himself at 0600 Monday morning so he can fly out to CA for work.
He doesn't come in until this Saturday at 2100, which means we won't be getting home until late soooooo....if it is a quick burn, I will "encourage" him if he feels up to doing it. Probably won't be until the afternoon though?
*grins* If you are talking a few hours....you are gonna have to wait, as much as that sucks, and as hard as that is. I am having withdrawls, and want my hubby to myself for a few hours of catching up. 2 weeks apart feels like forever lol. I have gotten spoiled with him being on shore duty. He IS missing Valentine's Day after all. ;)
I'll message him and get his take on it...
Will that work?
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Well, if he just wants to do the welding, then that should take less than an hour. Everything else will take all day... Painting, routing the brake system, installing everything, and finally bolting the axle under the jeep. The only parts I need help with is the welding and getting the axle under the jeep. I can do everything else myself. If he can't make it, I understand, but I really need to get this done this weekend so I can get the jeep to ctaxle as soon as I get the Super 88 kit, or I'm out of my jeep until the end of March. I am hoping Scott will be able to make it, because he was really excited to do the work, but if he can't make it, then I'll have to try and find someone else to do it. If I wasn't on a schedule, then I would say no prob. I just don't want Scott to get upset if I ask someone else to finish the welding.
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Hey Axle, if all else fails talk to Alex at the hobby shop. The last I heard he had no problem lending the welder for use. Give him a call.
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he might weld stuff for you.
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Yeah, I know. I still have Scott's welder and he has allowed me to use it. I'll talk to Alex, but I know Scott would like to finish the job if he can.
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i hear you. ownership and all. just putting it out there.
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Axle,
I'll finish up the welding Sunday for you. It won't take but maybe 2 hours at most. I planned on taking the girls to go bowling or something later in the afternoon so when I get up Sunday, I'll call you and we'll figure out a time. I'm thinking noonish though...
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Axle,
I'll finish up the welding Sunday for you. It won't take but maybe 2 hours at most. I planned on taking the girls to go bowling or something later in the afternoon so when I get up Sunday, I'll call you and we'll figure out a time. I'm thinking noonish though...
Awesome! Noonish sounds good, I've got the mid watch Saturday night, so I can get a little sleep in the morning before we start. Hopefully the weather will cooperate.
Edit: How much does one of those tanks cost? I'm pretty sure even refilling the one you have won't be enough to cover everything, so tomorrow I may look into getting another bottle.
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I refilled your bottle, Scott, and I bought an extra one. I was just going to spend the extra $30 bucks and get an 80 cubic ft. bottle, but I didn't think you wanted to haul it around! ;D Anyway, hopefully two bottle's are enough to cover everything. See you tomorrow.
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The welding is all done and it looks great! I don't think I could get those brackets off if I tried. The paint is going on now, and tonight I will put it all back together. Unfortunately, since Alex snapped the head off of one of my shock mount bolts, I am wary about putting the axle under the jeep until I can get it out. I have been using an easy out to get the old bolt out, but it's so frozen in there it won't budge. I don't want to get the easy out broken off in there, and I've already broken 2 heavy duty drill bits trying to drill it out. That, and I've almost used a full can of PB. If I can get a sawzall or air hammer in there, then I will just cut all of off and put a new bolt and nut in there.
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i have a chop saw
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a grinder w/ a cutting blade will cut through it like butter! let me know if you need to borrow it!
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pic's of said cutting.
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pic's of said cutting.
http://community.webshots.com/user/elcamino73?vhost=community (http://community.webshots.com/user/elcamino73?vhost=community)
tacom mods album, cutting is around page 4, 5, or 6
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no, no, no,
justins rig..........
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I've got a grinder if ya need I should bring it over tomorow gimme a ring
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details for tomorrow's wrenching. . . ?
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yeah still waiting
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Cancelled. :'(
Raining
Parts stores are closed... I think.
Need brake equipment. Hoses and stuff. Unless someone has some ideas.
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advance auto/auto zone are closed? wow
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advance auto/auto zone are closed? wow
I haven't checked yet, but I imagine they are. If you guys go wheelin', give me a call. I'll spot and take pics.
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Call me, too. i'll be in my shop cleaning up the mess from my bumper install, and possibly installing my winch if it gets here early enough.
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Good news... Advance Auto is open (who'd a thought ::) ) and they have my parts. I'm going to go pick them up now and get started on the brake lines. So, if anyone doesn't mind a little drizzle, then we can still do the swap, but it's up to you guys. Just let me know.
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Alright, sorry for the on again/off again, but it's on again. Hot-Rod is coming over shortly and we will get started. Anyone else is welcome to join if you're bored and wanna get dirty.
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Done!!! Well, almost. Thanks to Scott, Alex, Rich, and Hot-Rod for all of the help. There's still a few things left before I can take it to CTaxle. Mainly I'm just waiting for the driveshaft and the axle kits. I think it looks great, and you can definitely see a height difference between the front and rear. The rear sits about 5/8" higher than the front. I'm Hot-Rodin' it! ;D
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle012.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s191/jt4X4/Axle/Axle%20pics/Rear%20axle%20swap/NewAxle014.jpg)
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thats hot!
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looks good, dude!
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Sorry I couldn't be of assistance for any of it :'( Stupid busy life! Looks great. Now, just so you know. I don't have any spare axle shafts that particular axle so no breaking on trails. Got it!?
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My new driveshaft should be here by Thursday, Friday at the latest!
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will helped also dont forget...
red x's for now. but i saw it last night. wish i got there earlier. cant wait to see it on the trail.
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Justin,
I'm just getting to see the photos now. You might need to go up to 37's.... ::)
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Next year!!! I just have to decide whether I want to stay with the Parnelli Jones, or try something else. ;D
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And by the way, who's the gorilla that did those welds?????? ::)
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I heard it was "Gorilla Bead Inc." ;D
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irok's
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def. need bigger shoes on that!!! i like the axle, its changed alot since the first pics. let me know how it holds up
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it wil def be a beast on the trail.you need to groove them tires.
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whats up with you and groving tires? have you done yours?
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don't need to.
what's up?
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what's up?
Huh? You talkin' to me?
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lol
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So I got my new driveshaft today. I went with a rebuilt one from Carolina Driveline. $154 including shipping. All new components and it looks sharp. Had some trouble getting the caps on the ubolts into the flange adapter... Stupid needles!!! I had to go buy a new u-joint and just swapped out the bad caps. All the control arms are all nice and tight and the pinion angle couldn't be better. Then, as I'm coming home from my happy wrench fest at the hobby shop, the shock mount that Alex tack welded brakes, and I drag my shock the last half mile home. So I called Alex and told him what happened. Then I asked him what he was doing tomorrow to which he promptly replied, "helping you fix your jeep". ;D
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Okay, got a better to way to fix the problem and found out that alot of people with tj's and xj's do this. My lift salesman said it would work and that alot of did it when I asked. Weld a bolt to the mount so that instead of screwing a bolt up into the nut, you have a stud sticking down and screw the nut on. Axle this is what I want to try if you want to. We just need the bolts and nuts. I have some, but if we could get some assistance from another club member, we need quality like grade eight, or I'll just buy them.
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I have extra 3/8" bolts, nuts, and washers if you want to use that. I think their grade 5. Or, we can just get some grade 8, 1/4" because I think that's what was in there originally.
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go with the new grade 8's the'll give you less rust problems in th future
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somebody say they need grade 8? let me know size, thread count, qty, washers, locknuts etc. ;)
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some of each for back ups and trail spares would be sweet.
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Justin, rig looked real good on sunday by the way.
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Thanks, Hot-Rod! ::)
The Yota Tank was representin'!
;D
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i laugh so hard everytime you say that.
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She's now in Pete's capable hands... Now I get to play the waiting game. :(
Almost done. :)
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sweet
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Looks like I'll be waiting a lot longer than I thought. :'(
I got the wrong ring and pinion and outer pinion seal for the dana 30. I needed a standard rotation, short, crush sleave design. I got the shim design... So now Pete's got to order the right parts. >:(
At least he already finished rebuilding the 8.8 without any problems.
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I found fifth gear!!! It was hiding somewhere in my transmission, and now that I have 4.88's, it came out of hiding! It took nearly 3 hours to get home from CTAxle. I had to keep it at or below 60mph the whole way, and I had to stop every 15 to 20 miles to let the gears cool down. The speedo is better than it was with the 3.73's, only now it reads about 7 over at 60mph instead of 10 under. I have to route the wires and switches for the lockers tomorrow. I climbed up a steep dirt mound with just the limited slip... Crawled right up it without me giving any pedal. Everything is so much smoother now. Pete found that the 8.8 pinion was warped a little, which is what was giving me so much slop in my rear drive train. Up front, with the new outter axle seals (like the ones One-eye has), and the new u-joints, the steering was much stiffer. Overall, SUPER happy about it. Pete was awesome and was a pleasure to work with.
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cool beans
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I had to keep it at or below 60mph the whole way, and I had to stop every 15 to 20 miles to let the gears cool down.
Next mod.....A tranny cooler out of a (cough, hack, spit......) tuner ;)
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Done! Completely, totally, done. Hooked up both lockers today. I can't wait to try them out.
May this ridiculously long thread rest in peace. ;D
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Rest in Pieces