JT4x4
The Mud Pit => Wrenching => Topic started by: Bill3753 on January 10, 2011, 05:50:58 PM
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So, I feel like every time I wheel my Dana 30 it I've got a ticking time bomb under me due to the extra horse power and torque I'm laying down with the supercharger. Anyways, this is what I am thinking.
Dana HP60 Front - Stock w/ 4.10 Gears
Sterling 10.25 Rear - Stock w/ 4.10 Gears (Welded? If I do that I would put a Detroit in it latter on)
Military H1 Double Beadlocks w/ 7†backspacing
Military 37" Goodyears
Obviously, what started me looking was wanting to upgrade to a stronger front end and 35's. I'm looking at the combo above because I honestly think it will be more cost effective. I found a HP60 Kingpin front for $500 with 4.10's. The same guy wants $200 for the matching 4.10 Sterling rear. The axles are in running condition. So, for much less than the cost of a D30 Front Hub Conversion and Chromo's or HP44 with Chromo’s/truss and brackets, I can have 1 ton axles. I’ll still need the brackets for the HP60, but that is still less than the cost of chromo axles, brackets and a truss for the HP44.
Then there is the tires and rims to consider. If I go with a HP44 Front with chromo axles, I would need new wheels and wheel spacers for the rear to match the width of the HP44. I found the H1 double beadlocks with the PVC inserts for $75 each. Also, the H1 rims run a large offset, so I can run the axles full width and still keep almost the entire tire under my 7†flares. I would use these wheels regardless of where I go with this build because they are a DOT legal double beadlock. Using a HP44 full width would still require the offset anyways. The 37†Military rubber cost $75.00 a tire as well which to me is much less then I would pay for 35’s.
So basically, this is what I am thinking in a nutshell. Buying a HP60/10.25 Rear, H1 Rims, and 37’s will be less than building up my Dana 30, building a HP30, or building a HP44 because I wouldn’t be buying hub conversions or chromo axles. Also, the military 37’s will be way less than 35’s. The other good thing about this route is I could then sell my locked D44 rear, part out the D30, and sell my current rim/tire combo to help recover some of the cost.
I’m looking for and open to thoughts and ideas? Is this a bad idea? Ed, I already know that two days ago I said I didn’t want more then 35’s, but those 37’s are a heck of a deal. Also, the built HP30 I found sold.
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What lift are you running? I'm running a Rock Krawler 5.5" Long Arm kit with 35" tires and Dana 44's and even with the Gen Right Tube Fenders in the front, I still can rub them on the inner fender when I'm at full flex. Nothing terrible, just tread on fender.. But from looking at your avatar, you're also going to need to consider new fenders / cutting yours to clear 37" tires. Food for thought...
I didn't see a "Members Rig" section for your Jeep so I dont exactly know what's been done to yours.. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this.
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when doing this i would consider doing the suspension also, u dont need more lift u just need to more room. Other than that i think this is a great idea, its a good thing i agree bc its the same thing im going on a 91 Comanche and that project is nearing completion.
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I was looking on pirate4x4 and there is a whole thread for TJ's with small lifts and bigger tires. For now, I was thinking put the axles under it and get it going. I'll flex it on base with one of the lifts and mark where it is hitting. I have a 4.5" lift and 1.5" body lift. From what I saw on pirate, bump stops and some cutting and it can be done with that much lift and cut stock fenders.. Yes, there was a bunch of the guys running high line fenders and stretched to 103"+ wheelbase, but there was also ones going with a very streetable set up with minimal lift on a stock wheel base. They all had full width axles with 7" TJ flares to cover it up then a big offset wheel to bring it back under. I already have the 7" Flares. Some cutting and moving stuff around a little and I think it would be great on the trail.
I figured I would get the axles under it, steering rigged up and flex it. Find all the pinch points, binding spots, and rubbing areas. Cut as needed. I don't mind cutting the fenders some to get some travel out of it. I can run bump stops to take care of the rest when I can build some highline tube fenders. Heck, right now I'm running doubled up stock bump stops in the front. I didn't set it up that way. It was the previous owner’s stupidity. I already have WAY more bump stop then I need. I guess I can cut those down too until I get it so the tires tuck up in nice.
I just honestly think I can go HP60/Sterling 10.25 and 37's cheaper then I can go built D30 or HP44 with 35's. It’s very tempting and the more I think about it the more I want to do it.
Only thing I have not done before with this kind of project is install the TJ brackets on axles. I can weld just fine. Just slightly worried about getting it set up right. From what I have read it isn't too bad of a job, just takes time.
Oh, I also did a little math on it as far as the width is concerned. The stock TJ Dana 30 is 60.5†WMS to WMS. The Ford Dana HP60 is 69.25†WMS to WMS. So that is 8.75 differences. Currently, I am running wheels with very little offset. I don’t know what they are exactly as the previous owner put them on, but the stick our far. Total width of the current Dana 30 with rims and tires installed is around 73†to 74â€. Now that is from the outside of the tire to outside of the other tire. If I go with the H1 Beadlocks with a 7†backspacing, I will be looking at 69.25†for the axle, plus about 2†per side (roughly, not including tire sidewall). That it 73.25â€. Add in the tire/sidewall sticking out and I will be right at or just a little over what I have now. Just food for thought…
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Just looking at the skids & rock sliders you built Im shure you can tackel this job. Can't wait to see what your going to do with that big chunk of 1/4 in plate for the tummy tucker. Wish I could give you some input but fab work is not something I do alot.
The combo your thinking about sounds great. Just do you research & take your time. Also are you still going to keep this as your daily driver? If so then I see your concern of welding the new brackets to the axels so it aligns correctly. If not your going to eat up thoes $75 tires very fast & DW is also the issue when alignment if out of wack. Again I feel you can handle a project like this. Just let me no on the steel you need because Im shure my buddy can get it for you.
I did not no that the H1 wheels were dubble beedlocks. Can I get a set of these for my JK with the correct off set after I put the 4.5 in lift on some day & what are the pro's & con's of running the H1 beedlocks??
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Bill be sure u turn the knuckles back with this new axle or ur never going to have the correct caster and then u jeep will not track down the road properly.
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H1 wheels. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746158
I thought about doing this to the JK but a 16.5 wheel limits tire choice.
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Thanks for the input Will because I love the BFG KM2's & don't think they come in that rim size. Im shure just the outter beedlock will be fine but must be DOT legal. Will do my research when im ready to buy. But going dubble beedlock. Theres no such thing as overkill.
Not shure where I read this but herd that the Goodyear Mill spec tire is so stiff that it has very little flex even when aired down very low(8psi & less) so running this tire on a light jeep like the TJ compaired to the H1 that these tires were made for might not make it the best choice. I might be wrong on this one tho.
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Back when I did my axle swaps I also looked into this swap. I was looking for my notes I made but the cons out weighed the pros when I listed it out. Here is my pro/con list from memory ( over 2 years ago I looked into this) When I listed out the costs of swapping in an 8.8 and polishing the D30 it was still a lot less $$$ then the D60/10.25 swap. Don't under estimate the D30. A majority of rigs that did the Ultimate Adventure ran the D30 with Chromo Shafts and 37's and none broke. This is all just my 2 cents.
Pros:
Bullet proof axles
Full width- more stability (also a con see below).
Relatively Cheap to get axles from a JY.
Some write ups, so not starting from scatch.
Cons:
Requires custom front and rear drive shafts
New Rims
New Shocks- stock won't support the extra weight of the axles
Adapting steering and brakes, plus still rear drum unlike an 8.8 swap.
Extra weight- loose the power to weight ratio that makes a Wrangler good off road
Full Width- won't fit on tight trails and will draw more attention from the po-po
Usually for trailered rigs
Will have to buy all the brakets and mounts for the axles
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Also are you still going to keep this as your daily driver? If so then I see your concern of welding the new brackets to the axels so it aligns correctly.
I did not no that the H1 wheels were dubble beedlocks. Can I get a set of these for my JK with the correct off set after I put the 4.5 in lift on some day & what are the pro's & con's of running the H1 beedlocks??
I want to be able to use it like a driver, even if it is not. Most I use it for current is driving 1/4 mile to work and back once and a while, then obviously to the trails. I want to keep it a driver more then anything because in the summer time my wife and I plan to take the top off to cruise in it on weekends. Then, randomly I drive it for a week or two everywhere just because I enjoy it. The Focus we have gets around 40mpg highway though. Hard to beat that.
You can get the H1 wheels recentered for any bolt pattern with any offset you want. I've actually been told that the 4 door JK's do well with 6" of lift and 37's. Might be worth looking into. Even if you swap tires later on, for $75 each it gets you rolling on 37's and you wouldn't have a hard time selling them on craigslist if you decided you didn't like them.
Not shure where I read this but herd that the Goodyear Mill spec tire is so stiff that it has very little flex even when aired down very low(8psi & less) so running this tire on a light jeep like the TJ compaired to the H1 that these tires were made for might not make it the best choice. I might be wrong on this one tho.
People complain about them when compairing them to tires that run $300+ each. Way I look at it is for $75 each it will get me going. Who knows, I might even like them. I saw a picture of a Ranger running them with the double beadlocks at about 4-5psi. They looked like the had nice give to them at low psi. I have read a ton of complaints though, but once again… for $75 each what you got to loose?
Bill be sure u turn the knuckles back with this new axle or ur never going to have the correct caster and then u jeep will not track down the road properly.
That is a concern of mine I don’t know the answer to yet. To be honest, I was hoping being I’m running a small lift and swaping in a HP60 that has a much higher pinion shaft then my LP30 I wouldn’t need much of a pinion angle. This should let me set my caster first the let the pinion angle fall where it is. Time will tell and it probably will not work, but I will not know for sure until I get the D30 pulled and mock the HP60 housing under it.
Do you know what the stock pinion angle and caster is for an HP60? That might let me figure out if I can make it work or not.
H1 wheels. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=746158
I thought about doing this to the JK but a 16.5 wheel limits tire choice.
Same place I will order the rims from.
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Pros:
Bullet proof axles
Full width- more stability (also a con see below).
Relatively Cheap to get axles from a JY.
Some write ups, so not starting from scatch.
Cons:
Requires custom front and rear drive shafts
New Rims
New Shocks- stock won't support the extra weight of the axles
Adapting steering and brakes, plus still rear drum unlike an 8.8 swap.
Extra weight- loose the power to weight ratio that makes a Wrangler good off road
Full Width- won't fit on tight trails and will draw more attention from the po-po
Usually for trailered rigs
Will have to buy all the brakets and mounts for the axles
Some of those I agree with and are exactly why I made this thread. Others are valid points, but don't exactly apply to me 100%. The weight is not a huge issue due to the supercharger. If I have it figured right, the full width will not be much wider then I am now beacuse of the wheel offset I plan to use.
Currently, I'm running a D44 rear and D30 front. Shocks, Steering, and brackets. Those are the big issues you pointed out that I am concerned about as well. All are possible, but will it make it not worth it in the long run? I already would like beadlocks and 35's, but I can get the H1 beadlocks and 37's cheaper. That is also one of the reasons I am starting to lean to the D60.
Another thought is if I build my D30, I am only putting money into it. If I swap, I can part out the D30 and sell the D44 rear. Both of those will help recover some of the cost. I have seen D44's for TJ's go as much as $700-$800 with the locker type that I have installed. That would pay for both the front and rear one tons I found. Selling the 33's with Micky Thompson rims should just about cover the 37's and H1 rims.
I know that is really looking into deep, but just something I thought about.
You do bring up excellent points though.
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Bill be sure u turn the knuckles back with this new axle or ur never going to have the correct caster and then u jeep will not track down the road properly.
That is a concern of mine I don’t know the answer to yet. To be honest, I was hoping being I’m running a small lift and swaping in a HP60 that has a much higher pinion shaft then my LP30 I wouldn’t need much of a pinion angle. This should let me set my caster first the let the pinion angle fall where it is. Time will tell and it probably will not work, but I will not know for sure until I get the D30 pulled and mock the HP60 housing under it.
Do you know what the stock pinion angle and caster is for an HP60? That might let me figure out if I can make it work or not.
Pinion angle is not an issue, but i can tell u with out any doubt you will have to turn the knuckles back, but lucky for u i know and have all the equipment to do this, as far as stock caster on a HP60 it dosent matter, what matters is when ur all said and done it needs to be between 4-8 degrees
Let me add i deff. think this is the way to go at some point i will have to decide if i going to keep my jeep or build something knew if i keep it its going to get this same swap but with a 14 bolt instead of a 10.5 sterling this allows for more strenght and a narrowed rear which helps when slidding around corners, also ill be doing a 5 inch stretch.
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I was originally looking at the 14 bolt for this. Only reason I said the Sterling was I see them for sale frequently with the fronts as a combo package. They have 35 spline axles and are very stout. About the same as a 14 bolt or Dana 70 really. Additionally, I read somewhere that they have about 2 inches more clearance then the 14 bolt.
That all together had me leaning to the Sterling. If I find a 4.10 14 bolt for the right price, I would probably consider it. It just depends on what is out there when I am ready to buy.
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A majority of rigs that did the Ultimate Adventure ran the D30 with Chromo Shafts and 37's and none broke.
But im pretty shure none were running a Supercharged 4.0L & thats a lot of tork where talk'in about here Kirk.
Standing next to that thing when the Supercharger spooled up on a hill at Deadfall sounded like it would have twisted up a beefed up D30 with 37" on it. I feel the smallest beefed up axel combo you could run on that SC Jeep is D44's & they still might brake over time & especially if ROCK is behind the wheel ;D Not that there is anything wrong with that driving style tho.
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Dana HP60 Front - Stock w/ 4.10 Gears
Sterling 10.25 Rear - Stock w/ 4.10 Gears (Welded? If I do that I would put a Detroit in it latter on)
Military H1 Double Beadlocks w/ 7†backspacing
Military 37" Goodyears
what are the specs on the 60 it sounds like a late model combo from a ford f350 and where are you finding the 37's at
I found a HP60 Kingpin front for $500 with 4.10's. The same guy wants $200 for the matching 4.10 Sterling rear.
are you willing to strap them to a pallet and hip them to illinios
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what are the specs on the 60 it sounds like a late model combo from a ford f350 and where are you finding the 37's at
are you willing to strap them to a pallet and hip them to illinios
The set I found was $600 for a HP60 and $200 for the Sterling 10.25 both out of the same 93 F350. I called him and he said that the front was missing the lock out hubs and brake calipers. After reading into the swap a bunch more though, I don't think the newer HP60 is the way to go. It can be used, but it is not as easy of a swap and best done by cutting the tube length on the passenger side. So no go, at least for me, with that front. I will probably go and take a look at the rear though.
I talked to another guy tonight. He has a HP60 out of a 79 F350. The 78-79 F350 HP60 has a longer driver's side axle tube and is much more desirable for a swap into a TJ. He makes it sound like the axle is in near perfect condition with 4.10 gears. He's asking $700.00 for it, so I will probably go and get it. From everything I have read, its hard to find the 78-79 F350 HP60 for less then $1000.00, so $700.00 would be a great deal.
Once I start getting a few more of the big parts in, I will start a new thread for the build. I am looking forward to getting it going. Obviously, everyone can tell by now which direction I decided on. So far, the parts I am loking to use are as follows:
79 F350 HP60 4.10 gears - $700.00
93 F350 Sterling 10.25 4.10 gears (welded) - $200.00
TNT HP60 Front Axle Truss and Brackets (Part Number TNT-TT-1185) - $474.70 w/ all front brackets
http://www.jeepinoutfitters.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1559
Poly Performance TJ Rear Axle Bracket Kit - $225.00
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/97-06-Jeep-TJ-Rear-Bracket-Kit-p-16942.html
Nate, what you think of those bracket kits? I know I could get just the front brackets for about $50.00 less, but I figure why not get the kit that will also give me a truss while I am at it.
I’ll then use the H1 Double Beadlock rims and Military Goodyear 37’s. I know the tires are not ideal, but air them down enough and they should do ok.
The things I have not quite figured out yet is what to do for the steering. I have a whole steering set up from an old fullsize Ford already. I don’t know if I can take parts for it and make it work in my TJ? I’m not sold on building a OTK steering set up as yet, but who knows. Also, I need to figure out if the current location of my gas tank will clear the Sterling 10.25 Rear. After I get it all in there, I will get the drive shafts made. I already have a Super Short SYE and a few other parts I needed anyways. I will install them as I do this build. No point in doing it all then pulling it all apart again .
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Bob, ever wonder what your Rubi would look like with the H1 beadlocks and 37's?
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845407/fullsize/148160_167042939995352_158049994227980_398283_4661830_n.jpg)
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TNT makes great stuff that truss should work out great for you it will take all the guess work out of it for ya. However dont forget to turn the front knuckles. other than that you should be able to just burn the truss on and bolt it in. As far as steering goes i would recommend a high steer arm for the passenger side knuckle and have the drag link bolt in there, then ream out the standard holes and run a simple tie rod over the knuckle to connect the axles. This way ur not spending to much on high steer arms you can get one for around $100 on partsmike.com and then we u decide u need hydro assist ur tie rod it already in a very good position to mount it up.
Keep the questions coming keep in mind im nearing completion on the almost identical build so i have already thought about and reasearched most of the thing u will run into.
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Bob, ever wonder what your Rubi would look like with the H1 beadlocks and 37's?
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845407/fullsize/148160_167042939995352_158049994227980_398283_4661830_n.jpg)
Thats a sweet looking rig. Needs a little more lift tho.
Are the H1 Rims the only Dubble Beedlock rims out there & are they overkill? I no you are getting a good deal but just want to no if single beedlock rims are just fine for extream trail riding. Im shure the dubble beedlock rims are extreamly tough but im not planing on driving over any IED's out on the trail. ;D. Correct me if im wrong but even the rigs running the Baha 1000 only run single beedlocks. Don't get me wrong on Dubblelock rims because I had the Hyperteck carbon fiber Dubble beedlock rims on my 300ex quad & loved them but dont plan on driving my jeep like the quad.(that would be fun tho)
I also have to add that even tho the GM14 is stronger than the Sterling or D70 it will be plenty strong enough for you build. If you went with 40" tires or larger then there might be an issue with breakage. Also correct me if im wrong but the aftermarket offers much more goodies for the GM14 than the Sterling. Did you ever look into the AAM axels or are they not good for your build?? Also not a lot of aftermarket parts for these axels but very strong. Should be plenty in the Salvage yards. Could be pricy tho.
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I'll leave the single or double beadlock question to someone else who has run them as I have not. I just planned on running these H1 double's as they are cheaper than anything else with a beadlock.
As for the 14 Bolt and Sterling rears, they really are about the same. I want the Sterling as it has better ground clearance by about 2" over the 14 bolt. From the reading I have done, the biggest difference is the 14 bolt has three pinion shaft bearing where the Sterling has two. That being said, there are still guys running both with 44's without issues. The Sterling gets used allot in the Bronco/F-150 community (where I was at before Jeeps) and those guys do some crazy things on a 103" wheelbase 79 Bronco with that axle in the rear. It will more than handle the 37's and weight of my Jeep. The gets used a bunch where the Sterling is a less popular axle. Many stay away from it because everyone and their brother runs a 14 bolt, so that is what they want.
As for aftermarket, the Sterling has a good selection of gears, spools, Detroit Lockers, ARB Lockers; I even think that Eaton has an E-Locker for it. After market support is there, so that is really not an issue either. The link below is actually a good thread on the Sterling. To me, the first post sold me; full floater, cheap, easy to find, and strong as crap.
=http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=940323&highlight=sterling+10+25
I don't know much about the AAM axles. I just did a search on Google and found an old thread. It basically said they are strong, but there is a very limited aftermarket for them. With the HP 60 and Sterling, it will be an easier swap. Heck, the truss with brackets on it from TNT for the HP 60 is already built. You just weld it on and go with little alignment issues to worry about. Like Nate said, still have to turn the knuckles, but that would be with another I suppose.
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Everything you are adding to your Jeep will hold up just fine. The only thing that might give you trouble is the stock 231 T case. I assume thats what you got in there right now. Its still a tough T case but turning thoes 1 Ton axels,heavy H1 wheels with the 37" mil spec tires will put some heavy stress on the stock 231. It might hold up ok for a wile but that Supercharged motor will push that 231 to its limmits. Tho I will say this that you can find 231's cheep. There everywhere. Keep a spare in the back. ;D
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^ i hear someone whispering, (ATLAS, ATLAS...)
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The only thing that might give you trouble is the stock 231 T case. I assume thats what you got in there right now. Its still a tough T case but turning thoes 1 Ton axels,heavy H1 wheels with the 37" mil spec tires will put some heavy stress on the stock 231. It might hold up ok for a wile but that Supercharged motor will push that 231 to its limmits. Tho I will say this that you can find 231's cheep. There everywhere. Keep a spare in the back. ;D
x2
1 ton running gear and high horepower will need a 1 ton transfer case. The aluminum case and chain will not hold up to tho that kind of weight and HP. There is a guy around the corner with a YJ that snapped the NP231 with a mildly built Chevy 350 and 35's at a stop light in 2wd. Also, do you have the AX-15 or the NV3500? I would expect that it too would be at the limit of it's strength. I would look into the NV4500 tranny with what you are planning.
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I have the NV3550 and NP231. I will run them as long as I can. At some point I might swap a Dana 300 or NP205. If I go to the NP205 I would probably swap in a ZF-5 speed at the same time. The ZF-5 is a 5 speed overdrive transmission out of F-250/350's and is very stout. Both of those would be in the future though.
As for the now though, its offical. This is going to happen.
Dana HP60 out of a 1979 F-350.
(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/845805/fullsize/hp60-front.jpg)
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Found a guy on craigslist with the Military 37's at a great price. $60 each with 90% tread or better. I will going to get 5 here soon. If anyone wants some too, this is cheaper then anywhere online. We could split fuel cost there and back (about $50 in the diesel F250). $300 for a set of 5 37's is a great deal.
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Got the parts for the front on order. Ended up going with the TNT Truss kit with all the brackets. Also, ordered new ring and pinion gears plus an install kit. I decided on 5.13 gears. I know that sounds low, but here are the numbers:
Stock 04 TJ Sport:
Tires - 225/75-15
Gears - 3.73
RPM's in 5th gear at 35mph - 1210
RPM's in 5th gear at 45mph - 1555
RPM's in 5th gear at 70mph - 2419
04 TJ Sport with HP60:
Tires - 37x12.5x16.5
Gears - 5.13
RPM's in 5th gear at 35mph - 1272
RPM's in 5th gear at 45mph - 1635
RPM's in 5th gear at 70mph - 2544
Other then that, I found a Detroit Locker for a 14 bolt rear new in the box on pirate cheap. So, I bought it and its on the way as well. Just need to find a 14 bolt rear now. I know its odd that I bought a locker for a rear end I don't own yet, but it was too good of a deal to pass up.
Items left on my shopping list include a new tie rod setup, new drag link, new track for the front, one Dana 60 high steer arm, 5.13's for a 14 bolt, a 14 bolt install kit, rear TJ axle brackets or maybe a 4 link kit, wheels, and tires. I should be going Monday or Tuesday to pick up the tires. I'll get everything else as I progress through the build.
If anyone has the reamer needed to ream the tapper for a one ton 7/8" chevy tie rod, let me know. I was thinking of buying one, but I hate to get it for one job. Also, I once I start the swap I will probably swap my pittman arm for a stock one. If anyone wants to swap with a drop arm let me know.
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I've got the reamer for going to Chevy tie rods. I'm running the JCR 1 ton steering with Chevy tie rods in my TJ currently.
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i also would like to borrow ur reamer rodger :)
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I think Nate will be ready for it before I would be. That is as long as you don't mind us using it...
Just another update. Found the 14 bolt rear tonight. Its about 45 minutes away and the guy only wants $100.00 for it! The pinion is froze in it, but that doesn't really bother me as I will be putting new gears and bearings in it anyways. Now I am just trying to decide if I want to do a disc brake conversion for it. I am thinking I will as those big drums are heavy.
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i think if u have the money to do it now u should go a head and do it, b/c ull end up doing it later and its just easy to do now.
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i think if u have the money to do it now u should go a head and do it, b/c ull end up doing it later and its just easy to do now.
I didn't mean that long... I just meant I need to get the axles built first and your project is nearing completion.
On a different note, I have been reading a bunch tonight about rear suspension options and stumbled upon this:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/susp/tjleafsprings/
Anyways, it got me thinking and reading. Apparently there are a bunch of guys out there running about 5-6" of stretch using stock XJ rear leafs in the rear set up SOA in TJ's with very good results. It really suprised me, but people that have done it all say they love it.
I'm not saying it is definatly what I am going to do with mine. I just found it very interesting and thought I would share it here for everyone else to chew on as well. It would really make for an easy swap. I even found a kit from Blue Torch Fab that gives you just about everything you need to do it.
4 Link Suspensions are awsome, dont' get me wrong, but I'm trying to keep this thing low on 37's. That means I will not have a bunch of room for upward travel anyways. I really think the extra flex a 4 link would give me over this type of set up would be lost when it hits the bump stops anyways.
Like I said, not saying its what I want to do just yet. Just throwing it out there.
Anyone have a stock set of XJ rear leafs laying around they would part with?
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xj leaves suck
i had a set on my jeep for a week then i got some taco leaves much better ride and not as much sag if you are going to run leaves in the rear don't forger the anti wrap bar
most people i know who have xj leaves have at least 2 main leaves for a pseudo military wrap and the xj leves will need very good bump stops
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Ya, I really doubt I would use the leafs. I just saw it while reading tech write ups and thought it was interesting.
I'm torn about the whole idea and if I like it or not. I did add up the cost of the swap and to do it right with good brackets and leafs I would have just about as much wrapped up into it as I would a decent 4 link.
I really would love to use the Clayton Stretch 4 link kit, but it is not cheap. I still may just set it up with the aftermarket short arms I have until I have the coin to stretch and 4 link it. I know I would be doing a lot of work all over though. Just depends on total gearing/rebuild cost on my axles.
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i think the stretch is deff. the way to go however i think ur best bet would be a 4 link with some air shock and i dont think it would to crazy expensive to do.
im a pretty big fan of this kit!
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Synergy-Suspension-Jeep-TJ-LJ-Weld-On-4-Link-Rear-Kit-p-2072.html
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i think the stretch is deff. the way to go however i think ur best bet would be a 4 link with some air shock and i dont think it would to crazy expensive to do.
im a pretty big fan of this kit!
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Synergy-Suspension-Jeep-TJ-LJ-Weld-On-4-Link-Rear-Kit-p-2072.html
I was looking into the Air shocks but the one drawback (for me) is the overall length of them.
I picked up a 4 link kit from Ruff Stuff Specialities, http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=441, it comes with a truss but no tubing.
One of these days I'll actually start working on it and then I'll be having fun like Nate is now!
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I had seen that kit and thought it looked good too. It will really all depend on how the axles come out. I already have most of the parts for them either on order or picked out. I want both axles internally exactly how I want them before I start the swap. Originally, I was going to do lincoln lockers in both to save money for the swap. The problem with that is it isn't really what I wanted especially since the main goal of my build is to keep it streetable. So, I bought the detroit for the rear 14 bolt and last night I bought an Eaton E-Locker for the front. This will give me a very nice selectable locker for the front and a good strong locker for the rear. I'll easily be able to drive it on the street without problems. Most of all, I will have both axles exactly how I want them and will not have to mess with swapping carriers, ect. in the future.
I called Clayton today and talked to them about options for stretching it with 37's and not having to do a comp cut. They recommended going with a 5" stretch, but nothing more. This way I don't have to cut the body like crazy and I can still run an fuel cell under it. I was thinking of going with a 7" stretch, but they say that would require a fuel cell in the rear cargo area and a full comp cut. Both are not what I want. Right now, I am looking seriously at their "5 Inch Stretch Rear Upgrade Kit" which runs right at $1249.00. I still need to talk options with them though as I want something that would be a whole package. Upper and lower spring mounts, axle side lower control arm mounts, 4 link truss with upper mounts, frame side mounts, the control arms and shock mounts. That is really what I need. The kit above have all of that minus the lower control arms mounts and axle side coil spring mount. It also comes with a few items I don't need like the frame notch kit for outboard shocks. I don't really need it because since I am going to run full width axles, I will have the room for outboard shocks without notching the frame. I want to see if they would do a package deal on something closer to my needs.
Once the weather breaks and the roads are clean I will go get the rear axle. I found one for $100.00 about 40 minutes away. Crappy weather has just kept me from going to get it. Same thing with the tires. Have them found and on hold for $300.00, just need to go get them.
So, for those following along this is what I'm looking at overall to date:
Front:
79 Ford HP60 Front Full Width
5.13 Gears w/ Timken Install Kit
Eaton E-Locker
TNT Truss w/ all mounts
Crossover Steering (Tie Rod on the knuckle/Drag Link Over the Knuckle)
Custom Track bar
Rusty's Radius Type Long Arms (Picked up on eBay super cheap)
Spicer U-Joints
Spicer Lock Outs
Stock Axle Shafts 35 spline inner/30 spline outer
New Seals
Probably my own custom creation of a modified/welded stock diff cover
Maybe a little shave/grinding for ground clearance???
Rear:
Corp 14 Bolt (New Style)
5.13 Gears w/ Timken Install Kit
Disc Brake Conversion
Detroit Locker
That is basically where the definite parts of the build end.
Everything else is still in the works and planning stages.
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So, went this weekend and picked up my new tires. Somehow, the pictures I'm posting don't have them in it, but they are some cool pics. I mainly just wanted to brag about eating at Geno's and Pat's in Philly.
Also, I was just about as lucky as you can get to find a spot in South Philly to park with a trailer, let alone being able to find a spot twice with one time being smack dab in front of Geno's.
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851303/fullsize/imag0100.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851302/fullsize/imag0098.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851301/fullsize/imag0097.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851300/fullsize/imag0096.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851298/fullsize/imag0094.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/851297/fullsize/imag0092.jpg)
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Well, as of March 6, 2011 my TJ is officially off the road and my build has started.
Day one I took a few pictures of my starting point and pulled the Dana 44 rear axle.
14 Bolt with the tubes cleaned up for mock up. I am going to tack everything in place on it under the Jeep at ride height. After that, I will cycle the suspension to make sure nothing is binding following which I will weld it all solid. To finish it off I'll clean the rest of the axle up and paint it all. Finally I'll install the gears, locker, axles, and new disc brake kit prior to final installation.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3cUiXHQI/AAAAAAAAAKc/XnX9TmM_wuo/s640/IMG_3481.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3hARFImI/AAAAAAAAAKc/pk83MLDjJVk/s640/IMG_3482.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3lki8ZTI/AAAAAAAAAKc/pXMtNX_q0fU/s640/IMG_3483.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3pnV75xI/AAAAAAAAAKc/gh8ogVzSh7E/s640/IMG_3484.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3tPIBhmI/AAAAAAAAAKc/5ACpMf2P07o/s640/IMG_3485.jpg)
Here are some pictures of the rear suspension prior to tearing into it:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3xDbeCNI/AAAAAAAAAKc/CmaAI8ojEqA/s640/IMG_3496.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3z4_KiQI/AAAAAAAAAKc/vJaiyhyTm4E/s640/IMG_3497.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW33SSAHvI/AAAAAAAAAKc/5kb7b-i5FIo/s640/IMG_3500.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW37Jwu7iI/AAAAAAAAAKc/YZl0ez3gLKk/s640/IMG_3501.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW3_Dv6UcI/AAAAAAAAAKc/3qzD_Uuqx2Q/s640/IMG_3502.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4DDVLjBI/AAAAAAAAAKc/1l0QIp3Y71E/s640/IMG_3503.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4I6AxRgI/AAAAAAAAAKc/iYWR3PEqe1M/s640/IMG_3505.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4NE3nWfI/AAAAAAAAAKc/UotELonaa9M/s640/IMG_3506.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4Q2utT5I/AAAAAAAAAKc/u7r9B25TplU/s640/IMG_3509.jpg)
I forgot to take some pictures of the end of the first day, but basically I got the rear axle out. All the arms, sway bar, lines, gas tank ect. all remained. These are pictures following my efforts tonight. Everything is just about pulled and I'm almost ready to start cutting. (LOOK AT ALL THAT ROOM ABOVE THE TRANSFER CASE!!!)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4Vb9vdcI/AAAAAAAAAKc/oYwUvlViYq8/s640/IMG_3511.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4ZGbDwWI/AAAAAAAAAKc/KuaN14_H6vo/s640/IMG_3512.jpg[/img
[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4ezvDKyI/AAAAAAAAAKc/RyFmCX0jSME/s640/IMG_3513.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4iem7-NI/AAAAAAAAAKc/IJUw5hYo3GQ/s640/IMG_3514.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4p4yN9FI/AAAAAAAAAKc/mX_h7_sY21E/s640/IMG_3516.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW4w7mRs8I/AAAAAAAAAKc/s6FXaH0E78Y/s640/IMG_3518.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW44iUyruI/AAAAAAAAAKc/kxo5vCa0NOw/s640/IMG_3520.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW47w1KLcI/AAAAAAAAAKc/vjKtoxiop3s/s640/IMG_3521.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXW5AaHJQXI/AAAAAAAAAKc/K6UuwgnJBAo/s640/IMG_3523.jpg)
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Nice progress man, cant wait to get my deployement over with so I can start my new project ;D
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[quote/]
The things I have not quite figured out yet is what to do for the steering. I have a whole steering set up from an old fullsize Ford already. I don’t know if I can take parts for it and make it work in my TJ? I’m not sold on building a OTK steering set up as yet, but who knows. Also, I need to figure out if the current location of my gas tank will clear the Sterling 10.25 Rear. After I get it all in there, I will get the drive shafts made. I already have a Super Short SYE and a few other parts I needed anyways. I will install them as I do this build. No point in doing it all then pulling it all apart again .
[/quote]
Dude, you have to cionsidr the backspacing of those H1 beadlocks hugging you steeering components. I'm consider damn near the same build up, but with an 8.8 and a HP44, and custom H1 beadlocks but with 3.5 inch backspacing and a 5 inch stretch. I guess its easier for me down here in texas though. No fender laws. i can run Comp corners and hi finders with no snuff from the fuzz. as far as yiour rig goes, you might want to consider a PSC Full Hydro set-up. From what i have read and heard, they are surprisingly stereetable, and it sounds like you dont drive your rig on the street TOO often, so it might be a suitable set-up. just my 2 lincolns.
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I probably should have updated that...
Wheels are now going to be some 16x10 Steels I ordered from a custom wheel shop to get the backspacing I wanted.
Tires are Toyo Open Country MT's in 38x14.5x16.
I plan to high line the fenders and keep the 7" Flares. When I'm done, with the wheel backspacing I ordered, everything will clear the steering and make me about 9-10" wider then I am now. My current set up is 100% covered by the flares and about 75" wide, so when I'm done I'll be sticking out of them by about 4-5" a side. I'll probably build a removable mud flap like the ones Genright sells for it as well.
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ETA to job complete? ;D ;D
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Goal is to have it complete for the April 30th trail run.
It's a lot of work, but I'm confident at this point I can have it done by then.
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What lift Did you decide to run. The Clayton w/ 5" stretch. I'm looking to that one to but cant decide if i wanna run that one or the 7" stretch double triangulated system. Choices, choices... :-\
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Thats a very rust free jeep noticing by the pics. You picked a good jeep to start this type of project on. Im looking forward to seeing this project done. Keep up the great pics of your progress. This thing is going to be a moster. You did say 37's before & now your going 38's. Now thats just going to be freakin awsum. Can't wait!!!
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What lift Did you decide to run. The Clayton w/ 5" stretch. I'm looking to that one to but cant decide if i wanna run that one or the 7" stretch double triangulated system. Choices, choices... :-\
Rock Krawlers Kit puts you out to a 102" WB. With the 5.5" lift you fit 37's and with the 7" lift you can fit 40's. If I were gonna stretch, that'd be my route.
P.S.: Fun Fact about Rock Krawler... They give a "return customer" discount. I went to them for a few of their other parts (Lower Control Arm mounts and some tie rod joints/ control arm joints) and they gave me a discount since I had already bought one of their systems.
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What lift Did you decide to run. The Clayton w/ 5" stretch. I'm looking to that one to but cant decide if i wanna run that one or the 7" stretch double triangulated system. Choices, choices... :-\
I found a guy in Western Mass selling off new parts he bought for his YJ project. From that, I got the rear Clayton 5" stretch kit with high clearance mounts plus upper and lower spring perches, a new high lift jack (brand name), and front blisten shocks all for $1300.00. With all the extra Clayton brackets and upgrades that kit alone would have been over $1500.00, so I got a good deal there.
I wanted the 5" stretch because I am not going to comp cut it. I'll be pushing it to the max for requiring one, but it'll still be full bodied with a high line.
Their 7" kit is nice, but I didn't want the comp cut so it wouldn't work for me.
Thats a very rust free jeep noticing by the pics. You picked a good jeep to start this type of project on. Im looking forward to seeing this project done. Keep up the great pics of your progress. This thing is going to be a moster. You did say 37's before & now your going 38's. Now thats just going to be freakin awsum. Can't wait!!!
The fact that it is so rust free is why I bought it. It could have been stock and in the shape its in and I would have bought it. I plan to keep it that way too. While I have everything out, its all getting a fresh coat of a POR-15 type paint.
The 38's were more a matter of luck. Stock they had 21/32" of tread depth. These are used and have 20/32" of tread remaining, so their basically new. The guy I got them from had them on a 4 door silver rubicon JK and went up to 40's shortly after getting them. Combine that with the fact that they are over $400.00 each with shipping and I got 5 for $1000.00, well I couldn't pass it up.
Here is one next to my 33's, lol.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TXcbZDQ3rnI/AAAAAAAAAK0/ea5z9Q7d1A4/s640/IMAG0130.jpg)
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Oh, almost forgot to talk about the work I completed tonight.
No pictures yet, but the center skid is now removed, the transfer case is set temporarily set to the height it will be at for mock up of the rear 4 link and setting pinion angles, and about 3/4 of the factory suspension brackets on the passenger side frame rail have been removed. I would have got both sides cleaned of all brackets tonight, but the skid took longer then expected to pull due to an overly stubborn bolt that had to be cut off.
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Sounds like some awsome deals fell into your lap. And those 38's are sick. cant wait to see it whin its done. Kinda like a preview of what mine will look like, except for the body color. ;D
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So, I got some more work done on it last night. All of the stock rear control arm brackets are now removed. I left the stock upper spring buckets on the frame for now so I can use them to help locate the new rear axle with the stretch. Once I have the new control arm brackets on the frame and the axle mocked in, I will remove them and notch the frame for the stretch.
I found that the easiest way to remove the frame brackets is to cut along the stock weld with a cutting wheel, but not too deep as to cut into the frame. Then, cut the bracket itself along its bends so it can be removed in sections. This allowed me to bend the brackets back and forth until the weld broke. If you do this, you’re left with about a third to half of the original welds which are easy to grind smooth. I'll post some pictures tonight of the results.
Last night I also took all the measurements I need on the new axle so I can properly locate the new control arm brackets, truss, and spring pads. I plan on making up an AutoCAD type technical drawing of where everything will be to post on here. I don't have AutoCAD anymore, so it probably will not be to scale. Nevertheless, it I think it would be nice to show everyone.
Today, I am going to be positioning the new rear axle under the Jeep and starting to mock all of the new brackets for the arms into place. With any luck, I may even be able to cycle the suspension by hand and check for binding.
I’ll defiantly post some updated pictures tonight. There should be some good ones.
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I’ll defiantly post some updated pictures tonight. There should be some good ones.
So anyways, I ended up getting rather sick for about three days. Before that, it was my wife and baby who had it. Needless to say I'm just now getting some progress made on the project. I even have some updated pictures as promissed.
Anyways, here we go.
Everything but the truss is tacked into place. The tack welds are just light for now so I can take it apart if needed, so don't mind the crapy looking welds. Should be able to cycle to check for binding tomorrow night. After that, I'll switch the welder over to 0.035" wire and stitch it all down correctly.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqpj_wElI/AAAAAAAAAOk/onroHvHlHjA/s640/IMG_3590.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqrAatwzI/AAAAAAAAAOo/c7f2vIRx46E/s640/IMG_3593.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqsEjQ57I/AAAAAAAAAOs/m-JGRSHpdec/s640/IMG_3596.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqtA-zpOI/AAAAAAAAAOw/Kas70KNjbjE/s640/IMG_3597.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbquao5dXI/AAAAAAAAAO0/ci_eUtNW9ck/s640/IMG_3598.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqvevKT_I/AAAAAAAAAO4/u2IKozVjR20/s640/IMG_3599.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqw0R4tqI/AAAAAAAAAO8/9lm0aYJd8OM/s640/IMG_3601.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqx4Y8grI/AAAAAAAAAPA/Lc5GG66V1B8/s640/IMG_3604.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbqzUZ4cgI/AAAAAAAAAPI/Cvv3Gu0hCJc/s640/IMG_3605.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbq1U7fCmI/AAAAAAAAAPM/psmBaLE_pow/s640/IMG_3606.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbq2n-H7zI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/BNo0SdnkEto/s640/IMG_3607.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbq39U3e0I/AAAAAAAAAPU/Wuj_DkgqWqY/s640/IMG_3608.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbq5Rz7bvI/AAAAAAAAAPY/_qn_6XWL5SU/s640/IMG_3609.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYbq7ElMSgI/AAAAAAAAAPg/ttWKm8ieZYw/s640/IMG_3612.jpg)
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I just love seeing stuff like this. Keep the pics comming Bill.
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Please tell me you are gonna do some extra bracing on that truss. That is the one thing i wish Clayton would do. Beef up the rear truss pieces. There's just not enough metal there for me.
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its more of a mount for the upper arms then it is a truss do u really think u needs to truss a 14 bolt while running 38's. i like over kill to, but he could run 42's on that setup
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its more of a mount for the upper arms then it is a truss do u really think u needs to truss a 14 bolt while running 38's. i like over kill to, but he could run 42's on that setup
And also the jeep is not that heavy. Its a TJ. Not a JK.
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When you start articulating that setup with the truss mounted to the diff at only 2 points, and start throwing the torque at it from the supercharger, that is A LOT of stress on what, maybe8-10 total inches of weld. I'm not saying it's a bad setup, just that you can never be to safe with you investment.
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If it does fail then Bill will beef it up. Im shure of that.
Hay Bill! When your ready to test this Monster Rig out I feel that BTC would be your best testing grounds because it's close & very tough. Also would make some great pics. I want to be there when your doing this.
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If I brace the truss, I'll weld an additional support to the back of the truss tube and have it bolt to a bracket welded to the differental cover. Its a easy and common way to add extra support to the 4 link trusses.
I also don't think I will need it and because of that I may not. The only reason I was considering it is because its really quick and easy to do. Also, since I'd build it all myself it would be cheap as well.
On a different note, getting the 4 link to this point was interesting. Originally, I thought this was a TJ specific 5" Stretch kit. That would allow me to simply follow the Clayton directions, tack weld it all into place, and call it good. Easy day, right? Answer... Wrong. Turns out it was a standard TJ 4 link kit originally. Then, since the guy was back halfing the frame of his YJ during the install he tailored it with Clayton to fit his needs. This all means the lower arms are about 31"-32" long while the TJ 5" stretch arms are 35"-36". I already know what your thinking (ask me how I know), just move the brackets back, right? Answer... kind of. I moved the brackets back, but it takes a whole lot more to set it up and keep all the 4 link angles correct when you move them back. The Clayton frame brackets are specifically designed to match the curve on at TJ's frame to make it easy to set the 4 link angles. When you move them back, you have nothing to referance off since the frame straightens out. Additinally, the centerline of the 3.5" axle tube on the 14 bolt is farther back then a Dana 44, 8.8, or even a Dana 60. Heck, most 14 bolts only have 3.25" tubes. Since mine is out of a cab and chassis truck, the tubes are larger. Anyways, this all means the axle would be back farther then it would be with one of those other axles.
So whats this all mean? You can't just move the brackets back 5" and get a 5" stretch out of it. With my set up, it would have gave me closer to a 8" stretch in doing that (once again, ask me how I know). Anyways, since I was setting it up my own way already, I also set the lower links farther apart to maximize the trangulation of the lower links (not too much though). I then set the frame brackets accordingly to match and still meet up correctly with the angles needed for the 4 link truss.
Once I got all the numbers straight, angles straight, and 4 link numbers right I was then and only then able to set it all up. I spent more time setting it up on paper then I did under the Jeep.
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sounds like you took the easy way, its always easier to crunch numbers then it is to just start welding shit together then realize u just f'd it all up.
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You could have just sold the stuff you couldn't quickly use, called clayton, and started with stuff taylored to your build. I know, cheap is sometimes better.
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I don't really see the point in that. I made it tailored for my build in a way Clayton was unable to offer. If I was going to sell it and buy something different I would have just bought the Poly Performance 4 link kit and built it all to my specs anyways.
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Synergy-Suspension-Jeep-TJ-LJ-Weld-On-4-Link-Rear-Kit-p-2072.html
I really like that it worked out this way. I built it the way I wanted specific to my TJ with the lift height/axle/tire combo I am running while using their arms. Not a bad combo in my mind at all.
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Pics?
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The pictures are the ones I just posted, lol. It doesn't look much different from the way Clayton sets them up, but I set it up with different angles and frame locations. I was able to maximize the triangulation of the lower links this way. Other factors on all changes were considered as well.
Here are some updates. Finally was able to flex it out tonight. Everything worked great with no binding or problems. After testing it all out, I was able to weld about 60% of the brackets up. I don't have any pictures of the welding as my camera battery died and I didn't have my spare charged. Anyways, here ya go...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlq89cSVvI/AAAAAAAAAP8/0kX8on57BxY/s640/IMG_3613.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlq-oQOgwI/AAAAAAAAAQA/j438BZa2rZ4/s640/IMG_3614.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrAS6Nm_I/AAAAAAAAAQE/Qh9vqMvEE48/s640/IMG_3615.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrB6Yx9MI/AAAAAAAAAQI/SvUcxja0m0E/s640/IMG_3616.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrDvCE50I/AAAAAAAAAQM/0m-_b-eZ8bU/s640/IMG_3617.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrFj1rSRI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/RyrJOskMe04/s640/IMG_3618.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrHZzExUI/AAAAAAAAAQU/wNmW4XyF3kk/s640/IMG_3619.jpg)
Yes, I put a jack stand on a jack to get it all the way to full compression...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrJeI2sZI/AAAAAAAAAQY/qLweEmU6bmI/s640/IMG_3620.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrLJxL74I/AAAAAAAAAQc/0rz3vupItnU/s640/IMG_3623.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrNdQr-SI/AAAAAAAAAQg/5p5JXLoqiEI/s640/IMG_3624.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TYlrQBnbHlI/AAAAAAAAAQk/zOF72ldZtYg/s640/IMG_3625.jpg)
First set are of it on the floor driver's side and full bump on passenger. Last few are full droop on the floor both sides. I also flexed it the oppisite way of the first few pictures and additionally with both sides at full bump.
Yes, I will definatly need limiting straps and bump stops, but I already was planning for them.
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is the 14bolt going to get a shave
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Yes. The ring gear I have for it has been turned from 10.50" to 10.05". This will allow me to cut the bottom of the case off and weld a flat plate to it. This should save me 2", maybe a little more, of ground clearance at the differential housing.
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how many pennies to get the ring gear turned?
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I ordered it from East Coast Gear Supply already turned. They stock them ready to ship in most of the common ratios.
If your looking to do something similar, give them a call and talk to Chase Perry. He'll hook you up. He gave me a military discount as well.
I ordered a bunch of other stuff from them as well. Everything was priced great. One item they shipped me was incorrect. All I had to do was call and same day the right part was on its way to me no questions asked. That is good service. Lets be honest, everyone makes mistakes. It just happens. Its how people handle those mistakes that makes a good company. I couldn't be happier with them.
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Tonight I got the axle and frame brackets fully welded. Axle is just about ready to put back together now. Just need to shave it as already discussed.
Next up is notching the frame and welding in the new upper spring buckets. Not too much more to go and I can have the springs supporting the weight of the rear again.
No pictures for updates. Didn't see much need as its just everything I've already shown but now fully welded.
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So, lots of progress has been made. The rear suspension is essentially complete now. Just a few more welds to complete. Its setting on the springs again, so that is awsome!!!
Next up is pulling it all apart. Then I'll shave the 14 bolt, put the internals of the it back together, and do the disc brake conversion. Also need to set the rear shocks up as well. After that its just prep and paint everything.
I'll still have a bunch of work to do in the rear half of the Jeep. Fuel cell will need to go in and I'll still need to highline it as well. Then figure out something for a rear tire carrier. For now though it just feels good to have the springs supporting the weight of the Jeep again.
He are some updated pictures...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZU_4Z5ysqI/AAAAAAAAARE/exBd2WWicVY/s640/IMG_3626.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZU_54Y4O0I/AAAAAAAAARI/4Wi2CVCdyro/s640/IMG_3627.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZU_72tMZMI/AAAAAAAAARM/XvF2l8Rytws/s640/IMG_3628.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZU_90DDewI/AAAAAAAAARU/myT5etq9RNI/s640/IMG_3629.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZU__ycdy-I/AAAAAAAAARY/CiyXzxSibwY/s640/IMG_3631.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZVABrybFII/AAAAAAAAARc/_dwdfN4HoG0/s640/IMG_3632.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZVAC9JaEhI/AAAAAAAAARg/ww2tIDBQBto/s640/IMG_3635.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZVAEw-KREI/AAAAAAAAARo/dKKPbLuoCTI/s640/IMG_3637.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZVAHMxoyKI/AAAAAAAAARw/XLFzDR4rWPk/s640/IMG_3638.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TZVAI6_QMUI/AAAAAAAAAR0/GVvUTA15MmQ/s640/IMG_3640.jpg)
In the last one you can see the weight of the Jeep is off the jack stands that were on the frame and now being supported by the springs.
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I don't have any new pictures just yet, but the rear suspension is all but complete now. By that, I mean everything is welded and the frame is fully plated to reinforce the areas that I cut away for the stretch.
The only this left for the rear is setting up the rear shocks. I'm waiting to do that though until I get the front installed. This will allow me to verify the ride height which is important when setting those shocks up.
So, today I just about stripped the entire HP60 front. Tonight I should be able to finish that up. Tomorrow I will pull the Dana 30 and with any luck start mocking in the HP60 front.
I'm still hoping to have it complete by the end of the month. At this point, its really going to depend on when I get the parts I need in.
I'll get some updated pictures up tomorrow night.
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So, here are those pictures I promised.
Starting out, one of the rear frame work I did. I didn't take very many pictures here, but its reinforced and boxed in a few areas with 1/4" plate steel then fully welded with multiple passes the final of which is a large weave to tie it all together
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6k9OJ3lI/AAAAAAAAATA/xbGn0cTDrhs/s640/IMG_3662.jpg)
Now, the Dana HP60 front all cleaned off ready to go (well, kind of but we'll get to that here soon).
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6cMHropI/AAAAAAAAASo/i6yFNahKKE8/s640/IMG_3653.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6e5UsZVI/AAAAAAAAASs/daQVACq4wfo/s640/IMG_3654.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6hOh3grI/AAAAAAAAASw/uJal49cfvAE/s640/IMG_3655.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6irIlXnI/AAAAAAAAAS0/o-WK6Jxk9W0/s640/IMG_3656.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6kNn_BnI/AAAAAAAAAS8/_TnUdJsPVvY/s640/IMG_3659.jpg)
These are with the TNT truss system sitting on top to check for fit.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6UDzAfDI/AAAAAAAAASU/R7UlNi8H08w/s640/IMG_3645.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6Vh-DaaI/AAAAAAAAASY/Ljp45pArkug/s640/IMG_3646.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6XBOK52I/AAAAAAAAASc/4f2_vtH-3K4/s640/IMG_3649.jpg)
Here you can see I need to grind down the cast in leaf spring perch some. Its not a big deal as TNT tells you it has to be done. I just wanted to see about how much I'm looking to grind out.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6Y32h5fI/AAAAAAAAASg/eHNpG0nKzSU/s640/IMG_3650.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6aAB5NiI/AAAAAAAAASk/j2tXjUSZ1Ic/s640/IMG_3652.jpg)
Anyways, that is where I'm at with it. All and all I'm thrilled with the progress I have been making. The front axle cleaned up very well and should be ready for mock up tomorrow night. Then, the rear suspension is more or less complete (aside from upper shock mounts). Next up is the grinding I mentioned earlier followed by pulling the old Dana 30 front and all associated parts that go with it. Once that is complete, I'll set the HP60 in place and start to check everything over and tack weld it all together.
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaJ6e5UsZVI/AAAAAAAAASs/daQVACq4wfo/s640/IMG_3654.jpg)
i love the little pionon stand
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I wondered if someone would comment on that, lol. Its a hacked off old drive shaft chunk I had laying around.
More updates now.
Dana 30 front is pulled and stripped of the control arms and shocks. The pictures below are to compair it with the HP60.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUdxFtL7aI/AAAAAAAAATg/ukJCxgeSedI/s640/IMG_3665.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUdzLioliI/AAAAAAAAATk/yjTBTsrBGT8/s640/IMG_3666.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd01akLEI/AAAAAAAAATo/IymvOil17I4/s640/IMG_3667.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd2jbtRPI/AAAAAAAAATs/jzPsvVZSDq0/s640/IMG_3668.jpg)
Then these are of the front of the Jeep without the Dana 30 there. On a different note, these are some good shots of the skid I built last year. I'm hoping it will clear the differental of the new axle. I mocked it up tonight and it looks like it will, but you never really know until you flex it out.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd4DTCQeI/AAAAAAAAATw/H0gxEPzbDFg/s640/IMG_3669.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd5RfEIyI/AAAAAAAAAT0/EpqBk8RYKTk/s640/IMG_3670.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd6jcSAeI/AAAAAAAAAT4/KpgYZe1finY/s640/IMG_3671.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd7SKoTqI/AAAAAAAAAT8/Bv8kxZ6_0mg/s640/IMG_3672.jpg)
These last few are nice. In order to fit the TNT truss and lower control arm bracket, I ended up having to grind away a bunch of the cast on the driver's side. I didn't go so far as to where it will weaken the axle, but I did want to weld the axle tubes because of it. Here are the results of those welds.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd8peyZuI/AAAAAAAAAUA/U6Lb-LyWGws/s640/IMG_3673.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TaUd9wN6m2I/AAAAAAAAAUE/bkocIJjb_sQ/s640/IMG_3674.jpg)
I thought they came out great. Tomorrow I'll weld the other side after I get my oxygen tank filled. I should also be able to start tack welding the truss, crontol arm brackets, and frame brackets on. I test fit everything tonight, so its basically ready to weld together. More pictures to follow, but I should be able to cycle the front suspension tomorrow as well.
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Nothing new for pictures, but I did make some major progress tonight. The Dana 60 is now in, truss installed with control arms bolted on and brackets welded to the frame. Its all tack welded for now, but all the same its there and in place. I also cycled the suspension and installed the front springs to check everything for clearance. I'm happy to say it all looked great. It is hard to cycle the suspension for now as there is no track bar keeping the axle from moving laterally under the Jeep, but I was able to check it all well enough to know I can weld it all solid tomorrow after the clean up and cruise day at Auto Zone.
After I get it all welded solid, I need to build some lower shock mounts. Then, I will clean and paint the front axle. Next, I'll install the locker and gears followed by installing the spindles, hubs, and brakes. After that I can build the steering and track bar.
Doesn't sound like much, but its a lot of work. Good thing is after that the front will be ready to go.
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Ok, so things are really starting to fall into place for this build. The front is now fully welded; both frame brackets and truss. I still need to finish grinding the old track bar bracket off the frame and weld the new bracket for the track bar on. Once that is complete, the fab work for the suspension will essentially be complete (shocks need set up, but that is easy).
Tonight, I scored a 12 ton hydrualic press for cheap. I'm very happy because I needed one to set my gears up for the front and rear. This just makes things a lot easier on me. This week will be a big push to get the axles finished up. Plan is to finalize the suspension; shocks, steering, track bar and all. Additionally, I should be able to get the front and rear lockers/gears installed. After that, I'll be putting the tummy tucker skid in, new transmission mount, and SYE kit as well. Somewhere in there I'll finish the brakes off and set them up as well. Obviously, going along with all of this will be a fresh coat of paint.
The basic idea is to have the suspension ready to run with the only item missing from the driveline being the rear drive shaft by the end of the day Sunday. This will leave me with the begining of the following week to highline the body, install the new tire carrier, and finish it off by installing the fuel cell and lines. If that all goes smoothly, I'll have it on a trail somewhere a few days before the next club trail ride to test it all out. Everything goes right there and I'll be able to meet everyone, camera in tow, at the end of the month.
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Sounds like the build is going great man. i wish you the best of luck with the rest of it. go tear some shit up!!!! 8) 8)
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Front suspension is complete. Well, I still need to weld the track bar bracket solid to the frame, but thats it. Track bar is built, shocks are installed, long arms in... all ready for paint.
The track bar actually came out perfect. I was very happy how well it came out. I built it out of 1.5" 1/4" wall DOM tube with a rubber bushing on one end and a hemi joint on the other. After getting it built and installed, I cycled the suspension again with great results.
Next up is to build upper shock mounts in the rear and shave the 14 bolt. Then, I'll install the lockers and gear both axles. Then I just have to paint everything, put the hubs and brakes on, and do the final install. Not much more for the suspension.
Here are some updated pictures.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cBkh45pI/AAAAAAAAAUc/FXIEm7rtXZI/s640/IMG_3699.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cDQLAfgI/AAAAAAAAAUg/2PcPMDAhNrE/s640/IMG_3700.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cEi-Pu0I/AAAAAAAAAUk/AW2-RzhIPsk/s640/IMG_3701.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cF42QSRI/AAAAAAAAAUo/KN6NEp46s9o/s640/IMG_3703.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cLttP8sI/AAAAAAAAAUs/VHRI6v7ox18/s640/IMG_3704.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/Ta-cNrhTklI/AAAAAAAAAUw/z9F4yfdorAY/s640/IMG_3705.jpg)
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one of these time i click on this link i hope to see this thing on its own wheels and not jack stands lol
looks good now go shave the pig
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Update...
So, the shave on the 14 bolt is now complete. I also assembled the carrier with the detoit locker. Truthfully, I feel like I am behind now. I guess part of that is because I have worked in the garage for about 10 hours a day in the last two days and this is really all I have to show for it. The shave, mainly the welding part, took a lot of time. Then today, I had a lot of trouble trying to assemble the pinion carrier of the 14 bolt. All that being said, the work that is getting done looks really good.
Here are the pictures...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnMqTxCwI/AAAAAAAAAVM/RUnMrs0P1pU/s640/IMG_3706.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnOdBNgaI/AAAAAAAAAVU/0QaHG9xUAMg/s640/IMG_3712.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnPf2QYII/AAAAAAAAAVY/6ugDQgQK3WE/s640/IMG_3713.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnQo0Ch4I/AAAAAAAAAVc/5OR5gVI01TI/s640/IMG_3714.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnRAqVLpI/AAAAAAAAAVg/ef2LoKVxqdE/s640/IMG_3715.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnS9BBcII/AAAAAAAAAVk/bp_cshyx5jg/s640/IMG_3717.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnUae2gJI/AAAAAAAAAVo/Vcp9DTf23KU/s640/IMG_3721.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnVnSNgfI/AAAAAAAAAVs/TXaj3RHJclQ/s640/IMG_3723.jpg)
14 bolt carrier split in half with the Detroit Locker inside.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnWxwCVRI/AAAAAAAAAV0/mVS_eBAhv7A/s640/IMG_3725.jpg)
Other half of the carrier.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnYFF2SII/AAAAAAAAAV4/ueQedPnENzM/s640/IMG_3726.jpg)
Carrier fully assembled with the ring gear torqued on. Take note of the turned down diameter of the ring gear.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnZZb6zpI/AAAAAAAAAV8/uTP5I2dBgm0/s640/IMG_3727.jpg)
Clearance left between the bottom of the case after the shave and the turned ring gear. Just for referance, I can't fit my finger between the gap. Also, the plate on the bottom is 1/2" thick. It can also be used as refernce to realize how close it is.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnadV39MI/AAAAAAAAAWA/QSp5OL8kZHE/s640/IMG_3728.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOnbKa43aI/AAAAAAAAAWE/f8GL-mSNsko/s640/IMG_3730.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbOncb5GA_I/AAAAAAAAAWI/0kbkG4kfFMw/s640/IMG_3731.jpg)
Anyways, tomorrow is another day. Hopfully I can finish the rear off and then move on to the front.
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So, after getting the pinion set up with proper bearing preload today, I moved to setting backlash and establishing a contact pattern. I then fine tuned my pattern a bit while keeping backlash within spec. Its not perfect yet, but here is where I am.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbT2gLVz54I/AAAAAAAAAWs/4JQq91l6w8Q/s640/IMG_3819.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbT2hnLTM9I/AAAAAAAAAWw/kLLUYQDwCr0/s640/IMG_3820.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbT2juJSAyI/AAAAAAAAAW4/jYzBCTxtH9w/s640/IMG_3822.jpg)
Next adjustment will be to increase the pinion depth a bit and to slightly decrease the backlash. For those in tune of what I am saying here, I understand that a change in either of these values will also effect the other. I'm talking small adjustments until I have the contact pattern that is a little more centered and away from the top/heal pattern I'm currently at. Like I said, everything is in spec. Just needs fine tuning until its just right.
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More pictures of tonight's progress.
This is what the contact pattern should look like... Notice the nice diffused edges with no sharp corners. Then notice its all centered now. These are perfect. To get it here I took 0.003" of pinion shim out and adjusted backlash from 0.006" to 0.004". I'm very happy with these results.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCMPFYuII/AAAAAAAAAXQ/8TuzkVtX_3A/s640/IMG_3824.jpg)
So here is the housing all assembled.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCNCT9-4I/AAAAAAAAAXU/vq_JmLeiijg/s640/IMG_3825.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCOUvEQBI/AAAAAAAAAXY/Mc23jbA1Ed8/s640/IMG_3826.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCPMwQMWI/AAAAAAAAAXc/vM5E6HoopAU/s640/IMG_3827.jpg)
Here is a picture of the 14 bolt's straddle bearing. It adds a third support bearing to the pinion shaft.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCP5oSK8I/AAAAAAAAAXg/xcOThJ0fpzo/s640/IMG_3828.jpg)
Next up was to weld together the modified and fabricated cover for the shave. My 14 bolt is now officially a 13 bolt.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCQ1XQS3I/AAAAAAAAAXk/W96YFRVK2NA/s640/IMG_3829.jpg)
I really like the way this cover turned out. I'm seriously thinking about just clear coating it vice painting it black.
So, these pictures were meant to be the final pictures before paint and installation. What sucks is I ran out of 0.035" wire and couldn't finish welding the shock mounts solid or weld the fill plug into the cover. I'll finish it first thing tomorrow, but it was just annoying I guess. Still took some pictures of everything together anyways though.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCSdq4q1I/AAAAAAAAAXs/zRawNdjGH6c/s640/IMG_3831.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCTvZhfyI/AAAAAAAAAXw/0ZLDjPbO4UM/s640/IMG_3832.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_4z3RbyPKprA/TbZCUm6HYTI/AAAAAAAAAX0/AYtaCRnP1h4/s640/IMG_3833.jpg)
So, this is all the good news for the night... Now for the bad. I finally got a tracking number for the wheels today and they will not be here until Thursday or Friday. They were suppose to be here by the end of last week, but didn't even ship until today. That means I can't even start the rear high-line work until at least Thursday night or Friday night. Next up is the Dana 60 front cover. I ordered a Solid Axle Industries Cast front cover as part of an order I was already placing with Poly Performance, but they sent me a 14 bolt cover instead. I then worked it out with them to send the wrong one back and get a Dana 60 one on its way to me. They emailed me a prepaid shipping label for UPS and I sent it out next day. That was over a week ago, closer to two weeks ago. Anyways, they originally told me that as soon as the tracking number posted for the label as on its way to them they would ship the Dana 60 cover. I called them again today to find out whats going on and found out they have not even shipped the right cover yet. In their defense, they did say they would ship it with a 3 Day Air type service. Just sucks it worked out that way. Whats this all mean? Basically, the club trail ride at the end of the month is out for me. I'll probably have it finished a few days after. I'll still be there as a passenger though taking pictures all the way for the trail report.
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That is some really clean work Bill, motivates me to do an actual build when i get home and scrap the XJ. See you Saturday
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Just thought I'd take a quick minute to update this thread. I don't have new pictures because most everything I'm doing right now is small projects with little fabrication work involved. Last few days I have painted the entire rear section of the frame and underbody, painted the rear axle, mock installed the belly up skid, modified and installed the new transmission mount (that is still giving me a little bit of a pain), and I'm just about done with the new poly motor mounts with a 1" motor mount lift.
I'm hoping that by installing the motor mount lift, the transmission mount will line up better. If not, then I'll have some more cutting and welding to do on the skid. I needed the MML to allow for clearance of the track bar when the passenger side tire is at full bump, so I already needed it anyways.
Next I’ll build the exhaust, remove the transfer case, install the SYE kit, and paint everything from basically the front fender mounts back to where I already painted under the jeep. After that, I'll do final install on the skid, transfer case, transmission mount, and exhaust.
Items still to compete include final install of the rear axle, installing the rear brakes, installing the fuel cell and running all the lines, relocating the EVAP, front axle assembly (suspension is done, need to install locker and gears, knuckles, hubs, and king pins. Basically everything else), and then painting everything under the front end to include the front axle. Once that all is done, I can move to bolting the wheels on it and starting the body work.
For the rear body work, I'm considering buying a set of corner guard blanks from Genright. Originally, I was just going to simply bolt on a set of YJ short corners to move the gas filler to the back of the tub and fill in the rest like full corners with 1/8" plate. Then, I'd weld the two pieces together to essentially make my own corner armor out of 1/8" plate. Now, I'm second guessing it and considering the full corner guard blanks for the better protection a full 3/16" corner would offer. The blanks have no wheel well cut, so I'd be able to set it up perfectly to match my stretch (I can do this as well by making my own with the short corners). Additionally, I'd be able to cut the fuel filler and tail light locations as and where needed since they come blanked out. The only thing they have in fact is bolt holes drilled and counter-sunk for mounting. Everything else is blank.
For the front body work, I am going to highline the body as outlined in the link below:
http://www.higherground4x4.com/2/diy-high-line-hood-mod-for-cheap
Anyways, that’s about it for now. I'm open to comments, questions, and recommendations on the rear corners, and really just about everything I've done or will be doing here in the near future.
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Ok, so its been a while since I updated this thread. I'll have some new pictures to post soon. Progress came to a stand still in the month of May, but I've started back up on it so hopefully soon my swap will be complete.
As an update though, the transmission mount and belly up skid is now complete and the motor mount lift is installed. Sunday I pulled the transfer case and today Nate and I did the SYE kit install. I used the mega short kit and it came out great. We ended up tearing the entire case apart to clean and inspect everything. Everything looked good and its now ready to go.
To keep everyone on track, this is what I still have left to do:
Paint Belly section of the under-body and belly skid.
Modify Engine Skid Plate for new Belly Skid + paint.
Install Transfer Case and adjust shift linkage.
Install 14 Bolt Rear.
Install 14 bolt hubs and brakes.
Build final rear bump stops to correct length.
Order rear CV Drive Shaft.
Install Fuel Cell and run fuel lines.
Install corner armor, cut to clearance and paint.
Install new tire carrier / bumper combo + paint.
Install new king pins in Dana 60.
Install Dana 60 Locker and gears.
Install New U-Joints in front axle shafts and reassemble the front axle + paint.
Fully weld front track bar bracket.
Grind and Finish weld front control arm brackets on the frame side.
Paint all front axle mounting locations.
Install Dana 60 Front.
Build crossover steering.
Build final front bump stops to correct length.
High-line Front Body and paint front frame rails while the fenders are off.
Modify air intake into the cowl area.
Run brake lines and bleed brakes.
Mount the wheels and tires.
4 wheel alignment.
Drink a Beer.
I know there are probably other little stuff here and there I left out, but that is basically all that's left.
I'll make sure to keep updating the thread with more pictures and get some new ones up soon.
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Nate and I were talking tonight about how much the shave on my 14 bolt saved me, so I decided to start looking around for numbers to compair to.
These are all taken from the axle tube centerline to the bottom of the differental:
Dana 30 = 4 5/8"
Dana 44 = 5 1/2"
Ford 8.8 = 5 5/8"
Dana 60 = 5 7/8"
14 Bolt = 7 1/4" to 8" Depending on what write up I found (Stock Numbers)
14 Bolt after my Shave = 5 5/8" to 5 3/4"
So, slightly better then a Dana 60 and just a little more then a Dana 44. Maybe just about even with an 8.8. Talk about big savings in ground clearance. It was a TON of work to do it, but I am now very happy that I did. ;D
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That's pretty good! With the beef of the "13" bolt you'll crush rocks better than my 8.8 does now!
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I'd post pictures up now, but its 2:30 in the morning so they'll have to wait for another time.
Just happy with my progress over the last few days and thought I'd share.
Anyways, the rig is now painted from the fire wall back including the frame rails, the belly skid is installed and painted, transmission mount is installed and painted, transfer case is installed, the shift linkage issues are now gone (took the drop links out and put back to stock, then adjusted as needed), and the 14 bolt is installed with the 4 link set up sitting at ride height.
To finish up the rear I need to paint the rear springs, paint the diff cover and truss support, build rear bump cans, install the shocks, and put the hubs on and it'll be ready to bolt on a set of wheels. Should be able to get to this point tomorrow. I'm also going to try to paint some other odds and ends then start gearing the front axle. If I can get that much done, Wendsday the front axle should get installed.
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So anyways, like I said the rear is done. Its been a while since I posted anything new pictures wise, so here ya go. As a side note, they axle IS NOT at ride hieght in these. I have the axle being supported by jack stands and additional jack stands on the frame. I did have the suspension supporting the total weight of the rear though and it set level. I just feel more comfortable crawling around under it with the stands on the frame and addition support to the axle. Once I get the front in I'll feel better. Is just a little scary climbing under it with nothing to catch the front if it were to fall of the stands, so I am being safe about it with extra stands.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZALSNRFMhRA/Tgdp9SwU5zI/AAAAAAAAAd8/ArHtYE-2bFM/s640/IMG_3935.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-13B7EC1Ay6I/Tgdp-k-0keI/AAAAAAAAAeA/_YX-HAu0IV8/s640/IMG_3937.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zkO4-7QykOk/TgdqAPYn9ZI/AAAAAAAAAeE/N73aWj23Qzk/s640/IMG_3938.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--psih2z5vnA/TgdqB3nWpsI/AAAAAAAAAeI/wGS-DLuuv1w/s640/IMG_3939.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4drtduOYLlA/TgdqDTDjPOI/AAAAAAAAAeM/HoGSl3J64ZY/s640/IMG_3940.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-avJlAzNFA_M/TgdqIiq0OJI/AAAAAAAAAeQ/cf6Yu-6HzDI/s640/IMG_3941.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NjVpHQ8ZFFk/TgdqKy2pQvI/AAAAAAAAAeU/-PSxVBlamtE/s640/IMG_3945.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T1TtcLfbHPk/TgdqMYx-qsI/AAAAAAAAAeY/bnUTLhqexDU/s640/IMG_3947.jpg)
So thats about it for now. I had some problems getting the rear disc brake conversion to line up and also in converting the axle to a SRW set up, but other then that it went together very well. Everything cycles perfect and the bump stops are right where they need to be. Also, I ordered the rear drive shaft and it should be here Friday.
Anyways, the last two days have been spent on the front. I am working on the gearing and locker install and its giving me a heck of a time. I'm thinking I'm going to have to order a clam shell bearing puller and start focusing my efforts else where until it gets here. Theres enough left to do it shouldn't hold me up, but it still sucks. All I need to do to install the front is finish the gears and paint the axle.
I'll probably work on installing the fuel cell and corners today. Maybe run a few brake lines and finish welding the front track bar bracket. If I can get that done over the next few days I'll start the front high line. That will just leave the front end install and steering set up left to finish it all up.
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More pictures from today's work.
Pulled the old bumper, painted the rear frame cross member, and installed the new rear bumper:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jNWfwlbrw6o/TggHczz1BFI/AAAAAAAAAfA/PWs72V8abrQ/s640/IMG_3969.jpg)
Its actually really nice how it works. It wraps around the original cross member with 3/16" plate, ties into the body mounts and then sandwiches the same cross member with an additional piece of 3/16" plate. Then, it all ties into the frame with a two additional brackets to gusset everything to another area of the frame.
Best part is when its done its nearly flush to the rear of the tub.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-JO3MxCMQPGM/TggHeI4rxpI/AAAAAAAAAfE/69BJ8IxxBRY/s640/IMG_3971.jpg)
It also makes the lower mounting location for the flip down tie carrier I am using.
After getting that all together, I started on the fuel cell. It is really nice.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_C3MkA0xHA0/TggHYthy2bI/AAAAAAAAAew/vTTPMXDN_QI/s640/IMG_3958.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FjkbwIpdixU/TggHZ7xSYvI/AAAAAAAAAe0/Lf21-iHsdrY/s640/IMG_3959.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DaC5p9lohUs/TggHbm7lfcI/AAAAAAAAAe8/fl-wy-_HYio/s640/IMG_3963.jpg)
Here is one with the sending unit and fuel lines fully installed and ready to go. I actually got all the lines hooked up as well and plugged in the sending unit, but I didn't get it fully bolted in and installed. I'll finish it up tomorrow after which I'll start mounting up the corner armor.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6gSU0rNx2KY/TggHfWPMm6I/AAAAAAAAAfI/oln1q_nVTfA/s640/IMG_3973.jpg)
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Corner armor is on with the help of James, Fuel tank is just about done (need to drill two holes for final mounting), and I got the bearing puller today which works like a charm. Now that I have it, I am working on gearing the 60 again. Just need to finalize the shims for bearing preload on the carrier and I'll be ready to start checking pinion depth and backlash along with getting an initial contact pattern.
If everything goes right, tomorrow the gears and locker will be done. I should also be able to paint the front axle, knuckles, spindles and other associated brackets to install the front. Making good progress toward completion.
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So, its been forever and a day since I updated this thread. Figured I'd post some updated pictures and talk about the progress a little
Here are a few more of the rear suspension with the belly skid and trans mount installed:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8NtvlpMs1jI/Tits_XrBRSI/AAAAAAAAAgU/KSkfhicEkjc/s640/IMG_3942.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DZdtDrtQHGY/TittAaMGzpI/AAAAAAAAAgY/imgmFgmJ_hM/s640/IMG_3944.jpg)
These next few were during the start of the front locker and gear install:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YzEouw1JctY/TittDRexu4I/AAAAAAAAAgg/Yo-1xH9ZbhI/s640/IMG_3949.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DW8Gx9zDvxE/TittE_EQ1uI/AAAAAAAAAgk/ufrkLfxe5d8/s640/IMG_3950.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uD-rGOY6R8w/TittBSyxYuI/AAAAAAAAAgc/roc-ctzhk1I/s640/IMG_3948.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TOCBkgILOSA/TittF6ufb0I/AAAAAAAAAgo/EJt1LkAuxyc/s640/IMG_3952.jpg)
Here are a few of the first inital contact pattern after calculating my starting shim stacks:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DT-kRAcZw8o/TittIhdOXkI/AAAAAAAAAgw/4xFSi_52_E4/s640/IMG_3975.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Qd_vMGVf5-A/TittJn-ZqMI/AAAAAAAAAg0/TtZKZNqrwUo/s640/IMG_3977.jpg)
I got that far on the install and said "screw it, I'm buying some new toys":
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sfju6UF9aoM/TittK3FR9gI/AAAAAAAAAg4/vGVIdn1wBMI/s640/IMG_3980.jpg)
The install was extremely easy after that.
These are of the second contact pattern after increasing pinion depth:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-liN784MK3Z4/TittL5xFpAI/AAAAAAAAAg8/vY7jefHdqs0/s640/IMG_3981.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8xZP1kanr_M/TittM-986ZI/AAAAAAAAAhA/jk_aiyTu0Us/s640/IMG_3982.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2PVTDs_5jgY/TittNsppMtI/AAAAAAAAAhE/Gii1TpfSGJE/s640/IMG_3983.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vZhMeVF31cg/TittOqcqr9I/AAAAAAAAAhI/XcYtrOFmxT8/s640/IMG_3984.jpg)
These are the third adjustment (still using set up bearings). Increased pinion depth a little more and fine tuned the backlash:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-u-zqvoalPJc/TittQ4rfWKI/AAAAAAAAAhQ/MrSmjNfc_KI/s640/IMG_3986.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q7q3K2kp3qU/TittSm5ZkAI/AAAAAAAAAhY/cdziqcqkLmM/s640/IMG_3989.jpg)
Finally, I installed the new good bearings on the carrier and pinion along with the new inner race. Here is my final contact pattern:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-asXUMNri7rc/TittTrCdM5I/AAAAAAAAAhc/r57RHguiFj8/s640/IMG_3990.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r5ckYgrHMcU/TittUudC9rI/AAAAAAAAAhg/66g7UATD8sw/s640/IMG_3992.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gRMyvtj4ij0/TittVtKjWiI/AAAAAAAAAhk/MyHzqNqrZcU/s640/IMG_3993.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VAx0mZU9EHA/TittWjT1edI/AAAAAAAAAhs/jYSfSt8tGms/s640/IMG_3994.jpg)
I'm very happy with the results. The pictures don't really show the contact pattern very well, but it is good. The wires for the locker are installed and through the differental housing as well.
Final Backlash is 0.006" with 0.010" to 0.012" of carrier bearing preload. Pinion bearing preload ended up at 28 in/lbs.
From there, I did a TON of painting. The entire underbody and frame has been prepped and painted with Chassis Saver paint.
After that, I installed the front axle. The springs are in there for now, but will have to come back out one more time before its all said and done. Also, the crap high steer arm on the passenger side knuckle is getting replaced with a much better one from East Coast Gear Supply. Some day, I'll replace the knuckes with some the better Reid ones, but I already have all new brakes and bearings for the Ford stuff, so I'm not switching them to Chevy ones now.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cwqZMjoBvnY/TittimiAatI/AAAAAAAAAiM/yZmYTE_7kIw/s640/IMG_4006.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Bx4akNBESfs/TittjuISMqI/AAAAAAAAAiQ/PMu0OGhp8z4/s640/IMG_4012.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iewDVmvbJBw/TittlD7jH7I/AAAAAAAAAiU/nNkCFv0SZxc/s640/IMG_4013.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VGoXIDPnu_c/TittmmiiTnI/AAAAAAAAAiY/YAS_m7c0aI0/s640/IMG_4014.jpg)
This one is of the engine skid I built.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Zpnng_-ya80/Tittn-4S9_I/AAAAAAAAAic/G7RX_oiKPUU/s640/IMG_4015.jpg)
And here is one of the wires for the locker and where I drilled the differental to run them through.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-049At58uijQ/TittoxEaimI/AAAAAAAAAig/qw7W7-Sz_XI/s640/IMG_4017.jpg)
So, thats about it for now. I imagine I could take a few more as the Genright tank is in now too, but I guess thats good enough for the time being. All that is left to complete everything under the Jeep is install the spindles, hubs, and brakes, install the rear drive shaft I got from Tom Woods, shorten and install the front drive shaft, run new brake lines and blead the brakes, and hook up the fuel lines.
After that I'll be finishing up the body work. I recently ordered a set of Genright Highline tube fenders, rear stretch tube fenders, and mini boat sides to finish it all off, but have not recieved them yet. I already have full corner armor that started as blanks and were cut to fit the stretch. The tire carrier is going to be the Genright fold down rear stinger carrier and I'll be converting the tail gate to a fold down gate at the same time.
I'm also going to build or buy a front stinger bumper soon as well. I have the stuff to build one, but in the intrest of getting this thing done I may just buy one. If I just buy one, I'll be selling my Warn front bumper if anyone is interested.
Anyways, thats about it for now.
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What made u decide to go with tube fenders vice moving them up.
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The rear flares were not working out as well as I was hoping. Genright had some that would do exactly what I wanted, so just decided to run front and rear tubes and sell what I already have.
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So you're selling the blank rear corners? I think you told me that they were YJ blanks, depending on how far back you cut them I may be interested!
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I'm just going to be selling the 7" stock type flares. What I got was tube flares that I will mount on the corners, so they are not going to be up for sale.
What I was talking to you about Rock was the crap thin aluminum short corners that were on my Jeep originally. As it tuned out, they were YJ corners that someone cut up to fit a TJ. Also, they were rather bent from me smacking them on trees.
I do have a set of YJ Short corners in steel that are new in the box if you'd be interested in those though.
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sent you a PM
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Its a sad day when you have to go more then a whole page back to bump your own build thread... :'(
Anyways, you guys might not believe it but today I made good progress on my build!
So, without further adieu my update. Today, I was able to pull the driver side front fender. This gave me the room I needed to drill out the nylon steering shaft retainer to allow the steering shaft to collapse shorter. This is needed to make way for the new larger steering box as seen here:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f-oNFf0Jxrk/Tuf98bMz6sI/AAAAAAAAAok/V3Bnxmo785Y/s640/IMG_0351.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5Q7aNEi19Ks/Tuf99mXExqI/AAAAAAAAAoo/1j6u7hGfDe8/s640/IMG_0355.JPG)
After that, I installed the new longer and flat pitman arm.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x5assytwdpc/Tuf-BjCZoRI/AAAAAAAAAos/XlDT-YCzVfc/s640/IMG_0357.JPG)
Next up was starting in on the tie rod.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2dcMLW4X3lA/Tuf96MAhbsI/AAAAAAAAAoc/2yFkTQ8ZxlY/s640/IMG_0346.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SatDjd6yP-E/Tuf97QYcviI/AAAAAAAAAog/3p2yJuIhIWQ/s640/IMG_0349.JPG)
From there I built the drag link and cycled the steering. I am happy now. Full lock to lock turning on a HP60. ;D
Here is an idea of what the finished product will look like.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z5DBh3uNHpQ/Tuf-EsFkvlI/AAAAAAAAAow/VMevmrCtkIk/s640/IMG_0358.JPG)
However, the day did have a few problems I thought I was going to be able to avoid.
First, the longer flat pitman arm I need to get full lock to lock turning hits the lower radiator connection. I was hoping with my body lift it would clear, but as you can see it does not.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ScIsKoR7NWY/Tuf-FqYCOoI/AAAAAAAAAo0/GM_KWcaGQy4/s640/IMG_0359.JPG)
To fix this, I am going to raise the radiator slightly, maybe 3/4" or so. That will allow everything to clear.
Next problem is with the tie rod itself, or I guess its actually a problem with the knuckles that effects the tie rod ends. To flip the tie rod to the top of the knuckle, I ordered tapered bushings from Parts Mike. The idea is you drill the knuckle with a 7/8" drill bit, insert the bushing, and tighten the rod end down thereby sandwiching the bushing out to hold it in place. Anyways, when installed and tighened down my rod ends are tight against the top of the knuckle. If I leave it this way, it'll break tie rods ends left and right or worse and break the knuckle. Here is a close up of what I'm talking about.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hqzRFRLadeA/Tuf-GnKdfzI/AAAAAAAAAo4/TFsiWeAch_0/s640/IMG_0360.JPG)
This is what it should look like installed and torqued:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-IxPlvZxBFcQ/Tuf-HaJynVI/AAAAAAAAAo8/SFW4cDW52UU/s640/IMG_0361.JPG)
Notice the difference in the gap from the bottom of the tie rod to the mounting surface. In the first picture there is NO flex in the joint because its bottomed out. In the second, it moves just like it should.
My plan to fix this is to use Chevy 7/8" drag link rod ends, Part number ES2026R and ES2027L. These rod ends use the same thread as the other ones I was using, but have a longer taper on them. They are designed to allow for more flex. If you look close at my drag link, I am already using one of them on the pitman arm end of the link. Anyways, I'm thinking since these have a longer taper there will be enough left once it is tighened down to still allow for movement in the joint.
An additional note: I understand the track bar and drag link angles are slightly off from each other and it is going to stay that way. Yes, there is probably something I could do by putting a bend in the track bar to get them equal, but I don't care that much. I'm not worried about bump steer on this rig. Also, being that I am building it low lift on 1 ton axles, there isn't much room in there to move things around much anyways. It is as close as I could get it to equal without bending the track bar or going to a different style steering set up. I wanted crossover steering, so this is how it will be.
Next up is to fix the tie rod and then mount the hydro assist cylinder (as seen just sitting there in a few of the pictures). After that, I'll run all the fluid lines, install the new power steering pump and cooler, and check it all for leaks.
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Bill wants to cut a hole is his hood b/c with a motor mount lift his super charger doesn't clear, someone come up with a better idea quick before he does it.
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What about installing one of those cowl induction hood scopes in the center of your hood. It should give you the room you need but still keep the hood closed up?
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What about installing one of those cowl induction hood scopes in the center of your hood. It should give you the room you need but still keep the hood closed up?
I'll post pictures later tonight of exactly what is going on. Problem with a cowl hood is the supercharger is off-centered to the driver's side. It would either need the cowl off-centered as well or a really wide cowl.
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What about installing one of those cowl induction hood scopes in the center of your hood. It should give you the room you need but still keep the hood closed up?
I'll post pictures later tonight of exactly what is going on. Problem with a cowl hood is the supercharger is off-centered to the driver's side. It would either need the cowl off-centered as well or a really wide cowl.
The old Chevy one's were pretty wide, or a custom bump out over the supercharger and a matching one on the other side might not look to bad..
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Ok, so here is a little update on progress.
Notched the frame to clear the steering:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bDDYIX0z8xY/TwOt0CnhjlI/AAAAAAAAAtM/5ASUHP88oDg/s640/IMG_0422.jpg)
I know it looks like that is a big notch, but when you turn lock to lock with the passenger side at full bump, you need it to clear 100%.
Also, I fully welded and painted the steering and ram mount. Fixed the tie rod end issue as well.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KInywv4SVQU/TwOtySo7crI/AAAAAAAAAtI/EU2eLuwuY8U/s640/IMG_0417.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NGxV-xrrFzo/TwOtwYVXk8I/AAAAAAAAAtE/tzbSTv7lsyA/s640/IMG_0416.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IjeNNIdL7Jw/TwOtuXCL3jI/AAAAAAAAAtA/qjZOZxXtpY4/s640/IMG_0415.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mT3WlYbzT98/TwOtksc8OdI/AAAAAAAAAss/cJngOFmqu6I/s640/IMG_0410.jpg)
Next, I built a couple brackets to bolt the power steering fluid cooler to the bottom of the supercharger heat exchanger. It is all painted and installed with the lines run and in place. (Note: Supercharger heat exchanger is on top; power steering cooler is on the bottom)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TKCemgX0B_c/TwOtqRdItnI/AAAAAAAAAs4/INQM1tRkmUo/s640/IMG_0413.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5yt_QwABeCg/TwOtshirjCI/AAAAAAAAAs8/CtQHWyh3fP4/s640/IMG_0414.jpg)
For now, the radiator is pulled. I also Evac'd the AC system and permanently removed the AC condenser. Why? Reason for this was with the two coolers in front of the AC condenser in front of the radiator. Now, I shouldn't have overheating problems. Before anyone says it, I already know. Taurus electric fan conversion.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NkuvielmDG4/TwOtoZpbLDI/AAAAAAAAAs0/Vvu1ke_XKFM/s640/IMG_0412.jpg)
Oh, and the fenders are now both off.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J1040AwCc-4/TwOtirAqM9I/AAAAAAAAAso/2yR49j2fiGQ/s640/IMG_0408.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V_2hbDPOsGU/TwOtgZ9HRwI/AAAAAAAAAsk/4I-q13fC9eQ/s640/IMG_0406.jpg)
Finally, here is the supercharger problem. I needed a MML because of the flat belly skid I installed. However, the supercharger is now hitting the hood.
Not very bad on this one. Its VERY close though and once the hood is lower (can't fully close it yet), I'm thinking it will hit. If it doesn't, it almost certainly will when the engine is torquing while running.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-J49GQ7Iluf4/TwOteSDvVSI/AAAAAAAAAsg/BgF0qpgPVvk/s640/IMG_4726.jpg)
Here however, I am making direct contact:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_oho7KAACqY/TwOtdVFhoZI/AAAAAAAAAsc/rBVLFD4uwrw/s640/IMG_4725.jpg)
In the sport car/muscle car world, I have seen this quite a few times before and what I was thinking of doing (the first Camaro pictured has a hack job done to it).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FJSgXdiRzaA/TwOya1QmTyI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/8ispW0LS9Bg/s400/91ls1z28radix23_hood_cutout04.jpg)
These two are done clean. Its the same car actually. The first picture shows how they masking taped the hood to protect the finish of the carbon fiber.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7LKmgb6ergw/TwOyc4JCvjI/AAAAAAAAAtU/vXzHSdWjBFo/s640/IMG_2071.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3I8g3XJnOm8/TwOyehcDN_I/AAAAAAAAAtY/GFtarbwqMEk/s640/ls1genvsxx.jpg)
I am comfortable with doing a cut like this. The down fall would be taking water in the hood. Water crossings are not something I'm interested in, but rain. Maybe I could build a cowl, but who knows. No matter what I do, I'm defiantly going to have to cut the hood to make it clear. I already have to cut the sides too for the highline, so ya. The bigger issue here is what happens to the supercharger if I roll? I need to keep it protected too. My ideas for this is a big stinger in the front thereby keeping the weight on the cage and stinger. Another was to run a removable bar over the hood in the area of the supercharger.
If anyone has ideas now that I've posted mine, let me hear them. I've decided on holding off on putting the radiator back in and cutting the hood until after I've thought about the options more. I have plenty of other stuff to work on till I need to make that cut.
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personally with as much money as your spending on this i would say bite the bullet and get a shop to make you a custom hood.
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Look at all 4 pages of scoops, some nice double hood scoops on page 2 for under a $100.
You can turn them around so the opening is towards the windshield.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/hoods-scoops-and-ornaments/c2525j1s17.jcwx
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5" cowl composite hood. Looks sweet.
http://www.e-bodyparts.com/Car-Hoods/Product-Pages/TCJH-97AP.htm
(http://www.e-bodyparts.com/Ram_Air_Hoods/Tech_Hood/TCJH-97AP-01.jpg)
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This one looks pretty cool!
http://www.usbody.com/__Photo-Gallery/T-Hd-Jeep/tj-max-001-a.htm
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Having a shop custom build a hood isn't something I want to do. Also, I really don't want a fiberglass hood. Ya, steel ones bend and dent, but they also don't crack and break.
Anyways, Nate had a suggestion to raise the grill 1". This will also raise the radiator 1" (needed to clear the pitman arm). Messing with it today, I think it will give me enough clearance to shut the hood.
The downside of this idea is the tube fenders will probably need to be mounted a little higher too. The problem with that is since I'm already running highline fenders, I don't have a lot of room left under the hood. I may have to get creative in moving some stuff. Otherwise, I think this idea will work so long as the supercharger cooling fluid reservoir still has room to clear the master cylinder around the inner fender area of the driver's side.
Its hard to put to works, so I'll have pictures of it all in a day or two. Moving the grill is super easy, so if it doesn't work literally 1 bolt and I can put it back to where it was.
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So, I raised the grill today and the hood closed with clearance for the supercharger. I think it is going to work. I'm still worried the new fenders will not line up correctly, but we'll see. Right now it is slightly off at the grill, but I think if I use the bottom bolt in the back to pull it down it just might line up. Then, all I have to worry about is making the new inner stuff line up correctly. I'll get into more detail later when I have more time, but here is a quick teaser shot.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NZVXUElqNiE/TwYJUnQFWRI/AAAAAAAAAtc/rCXqqJ9MffM/s640/IMG_20120105_151238.jpg)
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lookin good, can't wait to see it on Tuesday! looks like you cleaned up a little too!
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I wish I had the time to clean up out there some already, but I have not. This weekend I'm planning on putting a hault on further work in the garage until I have it clean, tools sorted, and everything back in its correct spot. I've been doing a lot of work out there for quite a while now. Every once in a while I just have to force myself to stop working on it more and clean up some.
In the long run, even though I loose a day or two of work I actually feel like I gain time working on it because I don't have to search for the right tool I need every 5 minutes.
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Hey everyone. So, its been almost a month since I updated this thread. I thought I'd take some pictures to share and see what everyone thinks.
The body armor is just about done now. A few more holes to drill and one more slider to mock up and then I get to pull everything off for paint.
Anyways, here ya go. Starting off is the front highline stuff. To make the supercharger clear the hood, I added an additional 1" of lift on the body mount to the grill only. This raised the point where the hood closes and makes everything clear. It worked really well and looks good. Additionally, this will fix the issue I was having with the pitman arm hitting the bottom of the radiator. I am very happy with the results of moving the grill and also happy a Nate recommended the idea.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pk6oC78zZi8/Ty4HgLkEymI/AAAAAAAAAuk/YgnrVkH77O0/s640/IMG_5880.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-l29-LTp52-Q/Ty4HhAEnpSI/AAAAAAAAAus/kwGfK3RfiHM/s640/IMG_5881.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ykNEnjcM-oc/Ty4HicK5yPI/AAAAAAAAAu0/Rlg7IWntbAM/s640/IMG_5884.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9g8A0OTLva4/Ty4Hjfx9n3I/AAAAAAAAAu8/_Rx4jIB0MgU/s640/IMG_5886.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lM4brP3HDrk/Ty4HfI5c6fI/AAAAAAAAAuc/WY00Le-t5rc/s640/IMG_5879.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XR8GEp3BNq8/Ty4HwT_d03I/AAAAAAAAAw0/YPifjmbhzwQ/s640/IMG_5910.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-jwnm58MOVkg/Ty4HxctszzI/AAAAAAAAAw8/o9vaPJA9kK4/s640/IMG_5912.jpg)
Here are some of the body work for the stretch and the rear highline.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7YHXB--nj-A/Ty4HeODEp2I/AAAAAAAAAuU/0K00QKv1apI/s640/IMG_5876.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9g8A0OTLva4/Ty4Hjfx9n3I/AAAAAAAAAu8/_Rx4jIB0MgU/s640/IMG_5886.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DrwH7BaquoE/Ty4HkdYQGdI/AAAAAAAAAvE/bG1gRfc1Gwc/s640/IMG_5888.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ppzO3YHw6Xw/Ty4Hlbf9tuI/AAAAAAAAAvM/cpx3WgYee8I/s640/IMG_5889.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8ye1P020vP8/Ty4HmeQdvsI/AAAAAAAAAvU/ddKmB51IRB8/s640/IMG_5890.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F2Fmv0E5AE4/Ty4Hmyo12pI/AAAAAAAAAvc/uLmfC_J06Gk/s640/IMG_5891.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-moLsrmbMTpA/Ty4HnqRvIuI/AAAAAAAAAvk/myRbD4r3Avc/s640/IMG_5893.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JR3KQg3d6Ik/Ty4HoX_6SdI/AAAAAAAAAvs/IqWG8tdverI/s640/IMG_5895.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yGwfD1g3W2M/Ty4HpcqfezI/AAAAAAAAAv0/QKQjZkfYBaY/s640/IMG_5896.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fsCvvqURFzE/Ty4Hqsvz3YI/AAAAAAAAAwE/l0k2gLopuEk/s640/IMG_5898.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lMf7F0Wndr4/Ty4Hr6v7POI/AAAAAAAAAwM/UFnYr38-_Os/s640/IMG_5899.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-37bk_aeqvFQ/Ty4HsqRc5zI/AAAAAAAAAwU/hXrKy79Xg4w/s640/IMG_5901.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dOCsHA5VT3U/Ty4Htj_ggkI/AAAAAAAAAwc/DwStl8SZviU/s640/IMG_5904.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-si-fhr4afdI/Ty4Hui9Vc2I/AAAAAAAAAwk/VZg92Dk8G-Q/s640/IMG_5905.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-s3K2dU5bkvk/Ty4HvlepCNI/AAAAAAAAAws/TndDxustEu4/s640/IMG_5909.jpg)
Like I said, still some more work to do to call the mock up phase of the body armor complete, but its close. I am very happy how it came together.
Once I'm done mocking up the body armor, I plan to move into finishing the assembly of the front axle (shafts, spindles, brakes) and doing an alignment on everything suspension and steering wise. After that, I'm putting the wheels and tires on this thing. More then just wanting to see it sitting on tires again, I'll actually need to at that point. I want to mock up the rear tire carrier and tail gate and I can't do either without rolling it forward in my little garage.
The following measurements are estimates based on the center-line location of the axle and total diameter of the tires. They will change once the weight of the Jeep is on the tires, ect.
Ground to highest point with the top on: 78 1/2"
Ground to Transfer Case Skid: 22 1/2"
Ground to Fender opening: 50"
Ground to Rocker: 30"
Ground to Front Bumper: 28"
Ground to Rear Bumper: 28"
More updates to follow. Hopefully with pictures of it sitting on tires and wheels again.
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great fab work. everything looks super neat. I can tell you spent a lot of time on lining all that stuff up. Good job!
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lookin good, that 14 bolt is sexy with the disc brakes!
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holy crap nearly 2ft of ground clearance! i wanna do the hi line fenders front and rear on my CJ. did u buy these or make them? also in the rear did you just cut everything up to the top of the fender well?
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great fab work. everything looks super neat. I can tell you spent a lot of time on lining all that stuff up. Good job!
lookin good, that 14 bolt is sexy with the disc brakes!
Thanks guys. I just need to get motivated and off my butt to finish putting the front end together and I'll have some pictures up (finally) of this thing on tires and wheels again.
holy crap nearly 2ft of ground clearance! i wanna do the hi line fenders front and rear on my CJ. did u buy these or make them? also in the rear did you just cut everything up to the top of the fender well?
Highline fenders are defiantly the way to go. There is a variety of ways you can do it and they wouldn't be very hard to build with a basic tube fender kit similar to what gearhead used on his rig. The same way he built his tube fenders, you could build the highline fenders and then just cut the hood to fit. I bought mine already built though, mainly just because I don't have the time anymore to build the stuff. In the rear, I started with corner guard blanks, cut a basic wheel opening, welded the tube flares on, and then cut it all out as high as I could without getting into the passenger compartment of the tub. I am very happy with how it came out and would build it the same if I had to do it all over again.
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Highline fenders are defiantly the way to go. There is a variety of ways you can do it and they wouldn't be very hard to build with a basic tube fender kit similar to what gearhead used on his rig. The same way he built his tube fenders, you could build the highline fenders and then just cut the hood to fit. I bought mine already built though, mainly just because I don't have the time anymore to build the stuff. In the rear, I started with corner guard blanks, cut a basic wheel opening, welded the tube flares on, and then cut it all out as high as I could without getting into the passenger compartment of the tub. I am very happy with how it came out and would build it the same if I had to do it all over again.
the main reason i went with a bought kit is time cause no on could tell me what would work with a cj clip on a yj tub and frame and yj inner fenders sniper fab mixed up a cj and a yj kits and shiped them out i had to trim a there kit down to make it fit they way i want but a cj set would have bolted on from what i can tell and i started looking at highlining but it would have looked dumb but i have room for 40's so i m going to lower it 3" and if i decide to run 40's i will highline it using what i got
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So, these pictures really make me happy.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4kR7VS5-qUE/T0RqgVZA-yI/AAAAAAAAAxI/H2QlgXBlAWc/s640/IMG_6097.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-igPuBZM5i14/T0RqhqWugfI/AAAAAAAAAxM/yOurv3OaMYI/s640/IMG_6098.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-15oD8JgX3TE/T0RqjGoKbYI/AAAAAAAAAxQ/jDuvHprAL-I/s640/IMG_6099.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-qouOlOgozw0/T0Rqkt2ZPHI/AAAAAAAAAxU/UXl-VdAT_G4/s640/IMG_6100.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aWl7YQ0gWT0/T0Rql-5MuRI/AAAAAAAAAxY/fj8Ezlsr4gQ/s640/IMG_6101.jpg)
These ones are even better. All of these pictures were taken with the Jeep sitting at ride height. I am very happy with its new stance.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VD6R2uv3IwE/T0RqoAJxMeI/AAAAAAAAAxc/v6KJwPvFRHg/s640/IMG_6103.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pogjmKGszh0/T0Rqpe9hIFI/AAAAAAAAAxg/Mftu0C52o0Q/s640/IMG_6105.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LgebrZXCs30/T0Rqqq-jo6I/AAAAAAAAAxk/tpAk9a_RhBY/s640/IMG_6107.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-YXaXF-C0ptY/T0Rqr6wW1dI/AAAAAAAAAxo/k0EJpIG1_Vc/s640/IMG_6109.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MhOspg7Yzsk/T0Rqt-4109I/AAAAAAAAAxs/Qm-UwG2DtPs/s640/IMG_6112.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_4HDnvZf9uE/T0RqvCJjn6I/AAAAAAAAAxw/9v6f49PdMSI/s640/IMG_6115.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LNCBmzsjmnM/T0RqwMf2DrI/AAAAAAAAAx0/I2AG0i8frak/s640/IMG_6117.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-onypgDWN7h0/T0RqxbJZNVI/AAAAAAAAAx4/8Hbgg4hXqPk/s640/IMG_6118.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Np6dsnla-_0/T0Rqymir7lI/AAAAAAAAAx8/YWf2dyZ60wo/s640/IMG_6119.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BWtaEFz7Zeo/T0Rq0wzUw5I/AAAAAAAAAyA/NvBFJFB5KOM/s640/IMG_6121.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8onFpP599PM/T0Rq1xmjUrI/AAAAAAAAAyE/rJwuniKenpc/s640/IMG_6123.jpg)
Thanks goes out to Nate for helping me get the front axle together and the tires on. Its always nice having an extra hand. I am very happy with the overall ride height and it should drive out of the garage on the 38's. That alone is impressive to me. As you can see by the pictures (for those of you who haven't seen this in person), I have a really small garage.
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Wow, I'm most impressed on how clean the floor is.... just kidding, the jeep looks Sic! can't wait to get you back out on the trails!
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ok so it's just me but i have to ask. have you kept up with your reciepts? est cost of all this? i ask cause im doing this with my cj7
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Wow, I'm most impressed on how clean the floor is.... just kidding, the jeep looks Sic! can't wait to get you back out on the trails!
That's just because you can't see the corner I threw everything in, lol. Thanks though Rock. I can't wait to get it going. It'll be a slow process and I work the bugs out and learn to drive it in its new form, but it'll be fun.
ok so it's just me but i have to ask. have you kept up with your reciepts? est cost of all this? i ask cause im doing this with my cj7
I started out keeping a record, but stopped after a while. I've got a lot in it I know that. I was able to do a lot of it cheaper then most would think though. If you are patient, you can find some crazy deals on pirate, ect. You just have to keep an eye out. Good used and second hand new never installed parts are easy to come by on there at a fraction of the price.
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You better let me no when your going to take it out for the first trail run cuz I have to see this :o
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I started out keeping a record, but stopped after a while. I've got a lot in it I know that. I was able to do a lot of it cheaper then most would think though. If you are patient, you can find some crazy deals on pirate, ect. You just have to keep an eye out. Good used and second hand new never installed parts are easy to come by on there at a fraction of the price.
[/quote
on certain things i wont do that but i have found certain things that i'd like to pick up as i go. i found a hard top, bikini top, and 4 full doors for $280 off a guy that lived about an hour away ;D just typed out my own receipt on the computer and added it to the folder. my LJ had roughly 9K into it and i expect to put just as much into this so i figure i'll save the receipts and cry after it's done :'(
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Well, its official. The supercharger is gone and my Jeep now has a stock 4.0 in it. However, I think I made a good trade:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aJhePfMzQfU/T2VncXHp4BI/AAAAAAAAAyM/5Hg7lpXIJ0g/s640/IMG_20120317_223009.jpg)
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That thing looks rediculously awesome! Let me know if you are still looking for 4 liter parts, I don't know if the Cherokee parts are the same as the TJ parts you are looking for.
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HOLLY CRAP :o. Thats one sexy engine. Your going to need thoes big ass brakes to stop that jeep now.
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HOLLY CRAP :o. Thats one sexy engine.
x2
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you can't put a red engine in a green jeep it will look like a christmas tree send it to me i will treat it right
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HOLLY CRAP :o. Thats one sexy engine.
x2
x a million That engine looks great.
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Ok, so away from the engine and back to the current work at hand.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j7NdHKW6EIo/T3kpwBYJ-_I/AAAAAAAAAyc/WzTyK1bP8SM/s512/IMG_6306.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jqGDEtAS40A/T3kpxsUrECI/AAAAAAAAAyk/VJ63lcctVg4/s512/IMG_6307.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OL7gQxykf6U/T3kpzPk_etI/AAAAAAAAAys/EjcUutLvn3g/s512/IMG_6309.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7I7WmtqNJNI/T3kp1Kjn0VI/AAAAAAAAAy0/Nt1yV6tH9Ro/s512/IMG_6310.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qpL4vg2wQz0/T3kp2pohgMI/AAAAAAAAAy8/MyM_NFiLgUg/s720/IMG_6311.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hfUQ6SIyBX8/T3kp4f7NGII/AAAAAAAAAzE/aJzhxyWjNmg/s512/IMG_6312.jpg)
So, here is the basic run down. Trying to flex this thing to make sure everything clears. This is how far I've gotten so far. Trying to get creative and not kill myself. The good: Everything clears so far, it has a ton of flex (so much I couldn't get it fully flexed). The bad: Because it has so much flex I maxed out the hoist and couldn't keep going. Basically, I didn't really accomplish much. Yes, everything clears right now, but there is still a lot of flex left in it. Going to get (more) creative to see if I can get more out of the lift. I'm thinking I will have to get it out of the garage as well to make this happen.
Anyways, I didn't get pictures of anything else yet, but the rear drive shaft is in, the front drive shaft is shortened and ready to install, and hood is sudo cut but will need more cut off. I cut it enough to get it closed, but I still need to finish it off so it all lines up.
Hit a minor hiccup though. I ordered a 1310/1350 conversion joint for the front shaft, but the yoke on the axle is a 1330 yoke. Going to have to get myself a 1310/1330 conversion joint so I can install the front shaft.
So, whats left? Brake lines, fuel lines, Evap install, lights, front drive shaft install, putting everything in the engine bay together, and lots of paint. Going to make an attempt to get a lot done on this over the next week or so. I need another good weekend so I can pull all the body stuff off and paint it all at the same time. Should be on the trail soon I hope, but we will see. My schedule is always changing, so I am defiantly not trying to make any predictions on when it'll be done.
Oh, and before you say it Nate... Yes, I need bigger tires.
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i got a question for you bill why did you go with the e-locker over ox or an arb for a front locker
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i got a question for you bill why did you go with the e-locker over ox or an arb for a front locker
All three are great options. I choose the E-Locker because it was on sale at the time and it doesn't require an additional kit like the other two options do to control it. As shipped, it came with all the wires, switches, and a relay for a complete install. Sometimes, ARB will run a deal for a free pump with purchase and I'm sure OX does the same. To me, the Eaton set up was the best for my application, ease of installation, and price.
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Jeep is slowly coming along. Sorry I haven't been around much everyone. Just been busy with work and everything else in life. I believe some people have been trying to get a hold of me. If you're one of them, text or call me back. Things have settled down a bit now and I'll be around more.
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Still as busy as ever, if not more. I'm seriously trying to get thing thing done, but its tough with my schedule. Getting in the garage here and there, but nothing steady. I should be back out there more now and hoping to get it buttoned up, painted, and finished. I just want to wheel already.
Hopefully I'll get to meet all the new members I've been reading about on here and I look forward to seeing the familiar ones again. Schedule for 2013 looks great and with any luck I'll be able to participate.
See everyone soon.
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Good to hear from you again.
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Who is this guy? Was he a friend of the guy with the superharged green 1 Ton jeep ;D
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Still as busy as ever, if not more. I'm seriously trying to get thing thing done, but its tough with my schedule. Getting in the garage here and there, but nothing steady. I should be back out there more now and hoping to get it buttoned up, painted, and finished. I just want to wheel already.
Hopefully I'll get to meet all the new members I've been reading about on here and I look forward to seeing the familiar ones again. Schedule for 2013 looks great and with any luck I'll be able to participate.
See everyone soon.
Life has a way of rerailing our projects, glad to hear yours is back on track! Look forward to seeing you and Wes again!
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So a mini update. Still hatching out lighting (I think that was the last thing I talked about) as I'm 99% sure I burnt out the LED flasher. I'm going to get another on order and then we'll know for sure.
The engine I got (see a few post back) is up for sale. I'm just going to keep the 4.0 and use the cash from the LM7 small block to hopefully fund a cage and some other stuff. Idea drive line wise is to auto swap an AW4 (or 727) behind my 4.0 (only has 60k miles) and then swap a ??? xfer case behind that. Not sure this will happen anytime soon, but who knows. In an ideal world I get enough for the LM7 to fund a AW4/Stak or Atlas, but that's probably wishful thinking.
Up for work here in the more immediate future is sorting out my front suspension. After a while away from it I went over everything once more and I'm not super happy with the lower control arm frame mounts for the front and am questioning their strength (partially do to some shady welds on my part I found). I'm thinking I'd like to replace the frame mounts to the lower control arms with a more traditional mount welded to the bottom of the frame like I used in the rear 4 link. While working this, I may weld in a upper control arm link bracket to swap to a 3 link. Essentially, all of this will add a good gain in my up travel (about 2") up front while beefing up some crap that I rushed a while back.
Perfect time to do it is when the body work is all at paint (see my other post on this). Other work that HAS to get done is wrapping up the steering by installing the lines for the hydro assist, mounting the PS fluid reservoir, and installing the new PS Pump. The list of "little things" is long, but shrinking. EVAP mounting, lights, bleeding brakes, bleeding the master cylinder, install front driveshaft. Its all stuff like that, but it also all takes time. Things on the list of I'd like to get done include wrapping up some sort of air tank and controls for OBA like Ed had on his TJ. Currently, my AC pump is installed, but nothing is hooked to it. If I leave it that way I'm sure it'll not like it when I try to complete the conversion later on.
Progress is there though. Before ANYTHING else happens, the garage is in serious need of a deep cleaning. I quit smoking a few months back and the smell of old butts is not to nice while trying to work. Funny what you never notice isn't it.
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So, bumping the ol' build thread back up with a question or the opinion of others.
I'm working the driveline on the Jeep and trying to button up what's left. That said, the NV3550 5 speed is on the bench waiting on the gent who bought it to come get it this weekend. I'm auto swapping.
What I need: An auto transmission that will bolts to my 4.0 (without expensive adapters) that also has a 23 spline output. I am not 100% worried about the crank sensor as I made a template to know where to drill the bellhousing if need be.
Options I've found:
TF727 - add says "recently rebuilt by Bowie Trans svc in MD using a cummins rebuild set and a 4.3 ratio low/reverse apply arm. A new low stall Dacco converter comes with. I will toss in a flex plate for those wanting to put it behind a TJ/YJ 4.0. I drilled the case for a vent and plugged the FP vent. Never been used. I have NEW cables/brackets for use on a TJ. Cooler also included. Advance adapters CPS relocation kit included." He's asking $650.
TF999/A999 - I've seen a few ranging $150-$250, including one that is $200 and claims to be rebuilt. I do know the TF727 and TF999 are very close to the same thing, with the TF727 being slightly stronger. This route, I would need to find all the other swap parts. Flex plate could be used from a TJ/XJ.
My worry with both the TF727/999 stems from the following I read on pirate4x4:
"TF727 Sprag failure results from shock loading the drivetrain in first or second gear, such as attempting to climb a slippery obstacle where a lot of throttle is used, and not quite making it. If you don't get off the throttle fast enough and the tires find traction when sliding back down, this is enough too pop the sprag. torque flights are well known for this problem, and to a lesser degree, pretty much any simpson design auto can experience this failure. In almost all situations, breaking the sprag ruins the case, and the only way to get the vehicle to move to manually shift the trans into L. Shifting into low applies the low/reverse band or clutch (depends on the trans) and this gives something for the low/reverse planet to hold against.
I broke my old TF727 3 times like that, but did not know that if the trans is in D and you start off from a dead stop, all of the engine torque is pushing on that sprag. Manually selecting L engages the low/reverse clutch and relieves that stress."
Should I be worried about this? I know 727's are strong, but this kind of worries me. This brings me to the final option I've considered.
AW4 - Found stock in XJ's and they're stong as all get up. Can be had $100-$200. I've read a lot of guys running these in buggies with great success. Downfall to them is their length (about 2" longer then a 727/999) and they build a lot of heat. A large cooler is needed to keep them happy. Also, they're electronically controlled. To go this route, I'd use shifters from here: http://radesignsproducts.com/Home.php. These basically use a set of solenoids to allow you to manually shift all gears, which is nice. I'd also need a stock XJ shifter cable, but that's not a big deal. AW4 has provisions to use the stoc crank sensor. The flex plate could be sourced from a XJ/TJ stock.
Whatever route I go, the 4.0 is staying. Also, I'd want the 23 spline output to match the transfer case I just scored.
I am kinda leaning toward the AW4. Cheap, easy to find, and ultimately I think it may be stronger based on the sprag on 727's. Really just wanted to see what others thought considering the info. Also, are there any other options I'm missing?
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The geared 727 sounds like a very good option, the lower gear in theory should help relieve some of the stress since it will be turning easier, but it could also cause a bigger issue if your very bound up. I'd go with an aw4, they are amazing, I can't believe the strength of them even unmodified. I'd go with an aw4 on a full manual set up just like with the rad designs shifters you mentioned before.
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The 4.3 apply arm isn't the ratio of the first gear, but rather the ratio of the apply arm for the low gear apply arm on the band. The higher ratio is suppose to make it hold harder, which in turn should help support the sprag more so long as I keep it in L so the apply arm is engaged.
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Ahhhh I see, If thats the case I'd still go with the aw4 then, Cheap, stupid strong and reliable.
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Starting to be the way I'm leaning on it.
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AW4 is the way to go hands down. Also being an overdrive trans will work much better with the 5.13's on the road. A 3 speed is going to be tough on the road with 5.13's. Glad your back on the project.
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Ya, so am I Bob. I found a 2000 XJ AW4 today. Guy had the transmission rebuilt, then the engine blew. Should be getting it today for $250 with a lot of the swap parts I'll need.
For the transfer case, I scored a Stak 3 Speed Monster Box on pirate4x4 VERY cheap. Excited to get it. Bought it from the guy on pirate who repairs the popping out of gear problem some of these are know for. He updates the intermediate shaft with his own CNC piece that people there say works great. With this fix installed, it's going to be an awesome transfer case. 1:1, 3.01:1, and 5.44:1 ratios.
Body wise, I painted a lot of the armor yesterday. Need to sand it a little then put a second coat on before putting it back together.
Lot more little stuff to do, but it's all getting there.
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Ok thats pretty awesome that your gonna run a stak. I can only dream of those cases. That should make for one nice crawl ratio especially behind and automatic
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Originally, I was planning to do a Dana 300, flipped with a HD output. Priced out, roughly $200 for a stock Dana 300, $200 for a rebuilt kit, $400 for the HD output, and about another $200 in flipping it and shifters (that's going the cheap way) I was looking around $1000 and still having 2.6:1 gearing. I'd also need to work out the speed sensor with this route.
I got the Stak, rebuilt by a known and reputable Stak rebuilder for $1200. Needless to say, I couldn't pass it up.
With 5.13's in the axles, it should make for a good crawl.
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I get that. Thats a great deal on a stak also. Should give you around 78:1, that will be real nice especially with the automatic.
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Not sure if you already have a trans cooler but recomend the B&M one with it's own fan. That will keep the AW4 cool no matter what.
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Got a little more done. Still trying to get the same AW4. Hopefully this weekend I'll have it and will be able to start bolting it all together. If so, I'll get some pictures posted for a real update.