JT4x4

The Mud Pit => Wrenching => Topic started by: footman on April 25, 2009, 04:12:06 AM

Title: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 25, 2009, 04:12:06 AM
ok guys this one has me stumped.  Drove to work, went to start it to come home and the starter wouldnt turn over.  I've got full power to everything and was able to push start  it and drive home.  Once home I checked all connections and relays and all seem to be fine.  My thought was bad starter or solioid.  So I bought a new starter, hooked it up and nothing.  What do I look for now? 
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: rocket on April 25, 2009, 04:20:34 AM
loose battery cable, blown fuse, shorted wire to starter solonoid.  did you check for power to the solonoid (w/ key to start)?
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on April 25, 2009, 04:29:57 AM
When you got the new one, did they test the old one?    My guess, starter solenoid is bad.  AT YOUR OWN RISK, jump across the starter solenoid with a screw driver that has a well insulated handle ;).   If the starter gets power, then the solenoid is bad.  Also check all your fuses and all of you electrical connections. 

Do you have an alarm on your Jeep that could have gone bad?  The starter disable for alarms is usually installed on the starter solenoid. 

Good Luck, electrical gremlins always suck.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 25, 2009, 04:55:57 AM
connections are ok.  I did end up jumping the solioid, starter is fine.  I installed the new starter also and that one didnt turn over.  I hear the relays clicking when I turn the key so I hve to beleive that there is something between the relays and solinoid?
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 25, 2009, 05:16:08 AM
i assume since you said you push started it that it's a manual trans.  check the clutch lock out switch to make sure it's still mounted solid.  they have a tendency to come off of the mounts on yjs.  some jeeps didnt use one depending upon the year.  pm me if you cant figure it out.  i'm a retired master tech so if you cant figure it out, then i can probably find some time to come out and help ya.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on April 25, 2009, 05:36:36 AM
If you think it could be the Clutch safety soleniod, I know there is a way to insert a fuse and bypass the safety feature.  The procedure was in the owners manual of my wife's 98 TJ.  YJ's never had a safety switch.....they also never had air bags, anti-lock brakes, or anything all that safe ;D.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 25, 2009, 08:13:44 AM
will this help??  for 94 yj 4.0 im just guessing the aplication since you forgot to mention it but if you give specifics then we can go from there. check for power at the starter signal wire.  if non-exsistant then back track from there.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/flexj/cars/41798465.gif)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/flexj/cars/41798467.gif)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/flexj/cars/41798468.gif)



Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 25, 2009, 02:51:43 PM
So I've got all those scematics from the factory manual its just that I dont really know how to use/read them and I really dont know how to properly use my voltmeter. 
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 25, 2009, 03:04:45 PM
So I've got all those scematics from the factory manual its just that I dont really know how to use/read them and I really dont know how to properly use my voltmeter. 

call me if you need help.  electrical isnt as scary as people would think.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 26, 2009, 02:39:44 AM
now that i know it's a 99 from our conversation earlier.....here's the diagram for your 99.

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/flexj/cars/78548205.gif)

Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: rocket on April 26, 2009, 05:29:23 AM
have you checked your battery connections?
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 26, 2009, 02:51:29 PM
Do you know how to test if the clutch pedel position sensor is good
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: rocket on April 27, 2009, 03:18:43 AM
Do you know how to test if the clutch pedel position sensor is good

put an ohm meter on both ends of the switch.  puch the clutch.  if reading goes from infiinity (usually a -0 on a digital meter) to zero, it works.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 27, 2009, 04:03:39 AM
Paul, much thanks for coming over and finding my electrical gremlin. 
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on April 27, 2009, 05:36:08 AM
What was the problem?  If you look at the diagram the block on the left side, second from the top...labeled fuse block.  If you look in the owners manual it will tell you the fuse number, but if you insert this fuse it will bypass your clutch switch safety feature.  More importantly it will allow the starter motor to pull you up a short hill if the engine won't start.  Just remember you disabled a safety feature and make sure your Jeep is in neutral/ or you step on the clutch before you start it.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 27, 2009, 03:06:28 PM
It was my ignition switch.  Pual came and poked and prodded wires and fuses for twenty minutes or so and followed the scematc back to the switch.  The man is good and he knows his stuff!
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on April 28, 2009, 01:33:00 AM
I'm glad to hear someone understands electrical stuff ;)!!!  Nice job Paul!!!!
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: calvynandhobbs on April 28, 2009, 02:30:30 AM
Way to go Paul. I think when my engine finally gives up the ghost I know who to call now.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 28, 2009, 01:13:10 PM
It was my ignition switch.  Pual came and poked and prodded wires and fuses for twenty minutes or so and followed the scematc back to the switch.  The man is good and he knows his stuff!

Did you get the new switch in yet?
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 28, 2009, 02:51:54 PM
yeah I got the new switch but as I was taking the old one off I broke the mechanism between the tumbler and the switch.  Back to autozone.  Dangit I was really hoping to drive it today. 
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 28, 2009, 05:34:09 PM
So it looks like that part cant be found.  hey Roger, when are you getting that jeep?  Can I scavenage a piece from the ignition switch?
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: calvynandhobbs on April 28, 2009, 06:39:13 PM
So it looks like that part cant be found.  hey Roger, when are you getting that jeep?  Can I scavenage a piece from the ignition switch?

I'm hoping to get it this week. Thursday is bad, but it looks like Friday is do-able. I just need to get hold of Kirk to see if he can do it either Friday afternoon/evening or Saturday. I can also do it Wednesday, but we'll need to get a couple guys there to help get it on the trailer and it's kind of short notice now. I don't have any plans with any of the ignition so you're welcome to it.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on April 28, 2009, 07:59:27 PM
I'm going to try and migty putty it tonight bcits just killing me sitting there with this nice weather.  But I guess even if it does work I should have a backup bc who knows how long mighty putty lasts.  If it doesnt work I'm kicking Billy Banks butt!
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 29, 2009, 12:17:28 AM
I'm going to try and migty putty it tonight bcits just killing me sitting there with this nice weather.  But I guess even if it does work I should have a backup bc who knows how long mighty putty lasts.  If it doesnt work I'm kicking Billy Banks butt!

those parts are tj specific.  you may be able to get it from the junk yard, but never know.  you can leave the switch hanging from the column and just use a screw driver to start/stop the truck, and the key will be a "steering wheel lock" only after that meaning you can still start and stop and dive the jeep forward and backwards, but without the key you can't turn the steering wheel.  if you want to come to southington, or cromwell i'll see what i can do to afro engineer it for ya.

alldata lists all of those peices as the entire column.

Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 29, 2009, 12:32:44 AM
r&m auto recyclers in new britian has the whole column for $100
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 29, 2009, 01:46:22 AM
Ya if you can bring the truck up here then we can probably fix it, if not then we can put the column in no problem
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on April 29, 2009, 02:10:38 AM
As of yesterday there were no TJ's at Deans Auto Recycling, and just a TJ shell at Smith's 4x4 in North Franklin.  Jordan's in Norwich was a A-hole and the only TJ he has is repairable so he is only selling it complete.  Zach said he found a place that has several TJ's but I don't remember where he said it was.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 29, 2009, 01:54:31 PM
As of yesterday there were no TJ's at Deans Auto Recycling, and just a TJ shell at Smith's 4x4 in North Franklin.  Jordan's in Norwich was a A-hole and the only TJ he has is repairable so he is only selling it complete.  Zach said he found a place that has several TJ's but I don't remember where he said it was.

www.car-part.com there's about 7 yards around me that have more then 1 column.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on April 30, 2009, 03:16:19 AM
btw get more bug spray  ::)
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on May 08, 2009, 02:49:20 PM
Just havested the piece from an XJ at Deans.  She should be up and running tonight!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on May 09, 2009, 01:56:48 PM
Just havested the piece from an XJ at Deans.  She should be up and running tonight!!!!!!!!
unless that xj is 97 + the columns are different.  but i hope its the same, down time sucks!  oh and i dug out the sammi last night, it's almost ready to come home, i can't believe that the tires are still holding air.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: kirksjeep on May 10, 2009, 04:49:10 AM
The only XJ at Dean's is a 97.  It is a Cherokee Sport with heavy drivers side front end damage.  I looked at it for some parts, but everything I need was damaged.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on May 15, 2009, 02:50:39 PM
so how did you make out??
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: footman on May 15, 2009, 04:15:46 PM
harvested the part(with a little help from a BFH), installed it and vroooom!!!!  I've been driving it all week.  I just cant wheel it yet until I I do my TT.
Title: Re: Starter wont start
Post by: PaulW on May 16, 2009, 01:57:15 PM
harvested the part(with a little help from a BFH), installed it and vroooom!!!!  I've been driving it all week.  I just cant wheel it yet until I I do my TT.

sweet!!  glad to hear your back up and running!