Another XJ down, not cranking stranded at work

[BlacXJeep]

Ok so I got out at midnight last night, to find Black Betty dead. Shes got power, but tried jumping her anyways. She doesn't turn over whatsoever, and no click. I can hear the fuel pump turn on also, so I think I can rule that out. I also tried hitting the alternator and starter with a hammer, and nothing. So I'm thinking the diagnosis is either Neutral Safety switch or the starter, maybe CPS???. Tried wiggling the wires to the starter and the harnessing for the battery. I also unplugged the NSS connector in the engine compartment, no dice....

So if anyone has any ideas, or has a few hours this weekend to come out and try to figure this out it would be much appreciated. I'll buy you some beer or something. I haven't renewed my AAA so I can't get it towed unless I want to pay $90. Its in Mystic right off Jerry Brown rd.

Any ideas are welcome.

[PaulW]

did you try starting it in neutral??  how about jumping the wires at the starter?

[calvynandhobbs]

If it's the NSS you can normally start it in neutral or just jiggle the handle around a bunch and try it. Mine was doing that for the last year. Every now and then when I'd go to start it there would be absolutely nothing. I would just give the gear selector a couple slaps and it would start right up. I actually have a spare NSS  at the house that I will sell sometime in the future. My plan was in rebuild it before taking the one out of my XJ so that my XJ wouldn't be down at all.

[kirksjeep]

From my experience with the CPS, it will not allow the engine to send a spark, but shouldn't stop the engine from turning over, so I wouldn't start with the CPS.  Also my experience with starters is that they wear out over time, turn over slower and slower or intermitantly crank over, so my keyboarad diagnosis is not to focus on the starter.  It could be the starter soleniod, but you usually will hear a click with them.

With that being said, I would go with the nuetral safety switch.  Like Paul said, try it in nuetral.  It's a $230 part new, and even with 10% military discount, it's still over $200 .  If it turns out to be the nuetral safety switch, you might want to try a few bone yards that have a 90 day warranty.  

Does anyone know a way of bypassing the switch??

[PaulW]

it appears to have a starter motor relay.  try swapping it with another relay 1st.



there doesn't seem to be any way to bypass the switch, it looks like the pcm takes the signal from the neutral safty.  if you have to just run some wire to the starter and put the solenoid on a push button starter.

[kirksjeep]

Andy here is a link on how to bypass the NSS and how to rebuild it as well as where to buy a new one the cheapest.  There is a ton of info here. 

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351435&highlight=NSS

[calvynandhobbs]

Andy here is a link on how to bypass the NSS and how to rebuild it as well as where to buy a new one the cheapest.  There is a ton of info here. 

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351435&highlight=NSS

Andy, if you can bypass the NSS and it starts then you know that the NSS is the problem. I have the NSS pulled from the 88XJ at the house. As far as I know it works fine, but since it is already out it wouldn't be a bad idea to do the cleanup of it like what Kirk posted. We can clean it up and have it ready to go in so that the swap will only take a half hour or less. I got the second one because I read a lot about people breaking the plastic when removing and I didn't want to run the chance of breaking mine and not having a back up.

[BlacXJeep]

did you try starting it in neutral??  how about jumping the wires at the starter?

I tried starting it in neutral and even tried pushing up on the selector lever in park, nothing. Don't know how to jump it from the starter, wouldn't you have to cut the wires?

[BlacXJeep]

Andy here is a link on how to bypass the NSS and how to rebuild it as well as where to buy a new one the cheapest.  There is a ton of info here. 

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351435&highlight=NSS

Andy, if you can bypass the NSS and it starts then you know that the NSS is the problem. I have the NSS pulled from the 88XJ at the house. As far as I know it works fine, but since it is already out it wouldn't be a bad idea to do the cleanup of it like what Kirk posted. We can clean it up and have it ready to go in so that the swap will only take a half hour or less. I got the second one because I read a lot about people breaking the plastic when removing and I didn't want to run the chance of breaking mine and not having a back up.

I will try to bypass it at work tonight, I'm almost positive that's what it is because I hadn't had any issues with the starter and it seems odd that it would just abruptly stop working. I'll be posting online all night between trying to figure this out. If bypassing the NSS works I'll get a hold of you Roger. Thanks guys

[BlacXJeep]

Ok so go to work and tried switching the starter relay with the accesory fan relay. Still nothing. So in a few hours I'm gonna pull the whole NSS switch out and clean it up and see if that doesnt fix it.

[kirksjeep]

Look for the BLACK plug (not the grey one being held);


Look for pin B and C on the same side and connect them together, this will bypass the NSS.  You might get a code, but you'll know why. From what I have read all you need is a short peice of wire to make a jumper, after the Jeep starts, remove the jumper.  Good Luck.

[BlacXJeep]

Yeah I tried wiring that black plug together (B and C)  that didnt work so I turned the key nto on position, put the car in park ran some heavy guage wire from the positive battery terminal to touch to the green wire from the starter. Guess what she started right up. So my brain is wracked now, does this mean its still the NSS? or does it mean its the starter solenoid??? 

[PaulW]

Yeah I tried wiring that black plug together (B and C)  that didnt work so I turned the key nto on position, put the car in park ran some heavy guage wire from the positive battery terminal to touch to the green wire from the starter. Guess what she started right up. So my brain is wracked now, does this mean its still the NSS? or does it mean its the starter solenoid??? 

the solenoid will be good, because it started.  you have an issue from the key to the starter.  you may also have a bad ignition switch.  you have to back probe the system starting with the ignition switch.  follow the wiring diagram and do one compnent at a time.  looking for power going in and power coming out.  that will isolate the bad component.

[kirksjeep]

the solenoid will be good, because it started.  you have an issue from the key to the starter.  you may also have a bad ignition switch.  you have to back probe the system starting with the ignition switch.  follow the wiring diagram and do one compnent at a time.  looking for power going in and power coming out.  that will isolate the bad component.

Looking at the wiring diagram and reading what Andy did, it sounds like he bypassed the starter soleniod, so it could be bad.  Since he swaped it with the Fan Relay I would guess the soleniod is not the problem. 

Andy did you check all the fuses? It looks like fuse 8 (60A- at the distro block under the hood), and Fuse 18 (15A- also probably under the hood) and Fuse 3. 

[PaulW]

the solenoid will be good, because it started.  you have an issue from the key to the starter.  you may also have a bad ignition switch.  you have to back probe the system starting with the ignition switch.  follow the wiring diagram and do one compnent at a time.  looking for power going in and power coming out.  that will isolate the bad component.

Looking at the wiring diagram and reading what Andy did, it sounds like he bypassed the starter soleniod, so it could be bad.  Since he swaped it with the Fan Relay I would guess the soleniod is not the problem. 

the solenoid is mounted directly to the starter.  the relay is a different piece.  andy here is the right diagram for your 93.