Author Topic: Rock Crawl competition  (Read 10113 times)

Offline albsvx

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2008, 09:07:15 PM »
I don't believe that ec4wda has any set region wide rules.
I was speaking only from experience, check the wheeling rules on any other clubs websites.
When a club is hosting an event, and you are piggybacking from another club, they will expect you to follow their rules.
1988 Jeep Wrangler Sahara - 4.0, TF-999, NP-231, Dana 30 Truetrac, Dana 44 Detroit Locker, 4.88s, on 35"s

Offline albsvx

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1988 Jeep Wrangler Sahara - 4.0, TF-999, NP-231, Dana 30 Truetrac, Dana 44 Detroit Locker, 4.88s, on 35"s

Offline reg

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2008, 09:30:56 PM »
thanks al.  but all i see is the prohibition of metal hooks on tow straps.. hich are VERY dangrous.  I would cll my chain above min requirements.  there is nothing that prohibits my chain as a legal means of towage...  if there is somthing i am missing PLEASE enlighten me.  As long as it is attached to a shackle, and the hooks I have lockonto the chain NOT THROUGH the links, it is in every way safer and stronger than a recovery strap...

Offline albsvx

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2008, 09:38:30 PM »
I'm certainly not able to argue the safety of chain vs. strap from any form of experience, but personally, I wouldn't want you towing me with chain, nor would I want to be towing you with chain.

it just sounds dangerous

what I do know, is that most of the clubs say that fabric strap with sewn loops is a requirement

no, they do not specifically say that chain is not allowed, but they also don't specifically say that bungy cord, rope, jumper cable or a million other things that some people might thing is okay for towing is not allowed

you experience may vary, but I'm almost certain I've seen people told that chain was unacceptable ... not possitive
1988 Jeep Wrangler Sahara - 4.0, TF-999, NP-231, Dana 30 Truetrac, Dana 44 Detroit Locker, 4.88s, on 35"s

Offline reg

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2008, 09:48:43 PM »
thank you al, I just grew up in oilfield country where chain is king.   ;D   It was my understanding that tow straps are lighter and easier to carry in the rig. I don't mean to sound obtuse, but why would you not feel confortable being towed by a chain?   I wonder if anyone has done a chain vs 'tow strap'  study??

Straps wear out over time and should be replaced, chains (if taken care of) last longer than my jeep probally will   ::)

The greatest benefit to looped straps is they stay connected to the rig better and are more 'paint friendly'  I'm not trying to argue to prove anything...  I am just interested in the WHY.  I plan on buying a strap because I can get more length and can store it better.  But for a good old tug... i like my chain.


searching now for chain vs strap  ;)

Offline albsvx

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2008, 10:05:07 PM »
I guess my ignorant, non-farmboy ass isn't convinced that a chain will always fall, and will not have any recoil ... also not convinced that a broken chuck of link couldn't become a dangerous projectile.

somebody needs to send this in to mythbusters... :)
1988 Jeep Wrangler Sahara - 4.0, TF-999, NP-231, Dana 30 Truetrac, Dana 44 Detroit Locker, 4.88s, on 35"s

Offline Gastank

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2008, 10:20:54 PM »
As far as the whole chain to recovery strap issue.... I carry a military 8' recovery and the "orange chain of freedom" I have seen a chain break... I have also seen a frame break from a chain, each instance the chain did recoil but not to the point that I would stop using it... you just have to be mindful that it can happen. The recoil of the chain was far less than that of a winch using steel line. and we all know what that's like.
91 YJ, 350cid/TH400/231 4.5 RE springs, 2" Bonz shackles, 33/12.5/15 MT baja claws, and lock-rite in the rear.
"But it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation." - Herman Melville

Offline reg

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2008, 10:23:28 PM »
got some info from pirate 4x4

Chain

Another piece of gear you see on the trail all the time.  It can be extremely useful and versatile, but is very often misused.  If chain is going to be used anywhere in a recovery operation (and personally, I think this should be avoided if possible, because of the hazards, and most importantly because often grade, strength, and condition are difficult to verify), it should only be Grade 80 Alloy Steel chain of a size suitable for the task.

Chain for alloy steel chain slings shall conform to the requirements of ASTM A391/A 391M, Standard Specification for Grade 80 Alloy Steel Chain. Rated
loads for alloy steel chain slings shall be based on a minimum design factor of 4

Requirements for attachments to alloy steel chain slings follow:
1. Hooks, rings, oblong links, pear-shaped links, mechanical coupling links, or other attachments shall have a rated load at least equal to that of the alloy steel chain with which they are used.

Inspection:
Chain and attachments should display no wear, nicks, cracks, breaks, gouges, stretch, bends, weld splatter, discoloration from excessive temperature, or excessive throat opening of hooks. Chain links and attachments shall hinge freely with adjacent links. Latches on hooks, if present, should hinge freely and seat properly without evidence of permanent distortion.

Operating Practices.
Operating practices and guidelines for the use of alloy steel chains are as follows:
1. Chain having suitable characteristics for the type of load, hitch, and environment shall be selected.
2. The weight of the load shall be within the rated load (working load limit) of the chain.
3. Chains shall not be shortened or lengthened by knotting, twisting, or other methods not approved by the chain manufacturer.
4. Chains that appear to be damaged shall not be used unless they are inspected and accepted as usable in accordance with the periodic inspection requirements stated above.
5. The chain shall be hitched or rigged in a manner providing control of the load.
6. Sharp corners in contact with the chain should be padded with material of sufficient strength to minimize damage to the chain.
7. Portions of the human body should be kept from between the chain and the load and from between the chain and the winch hook.
8. Personnel should stand clear of the recovery.

9. Shock loading is prohibited.
10. Chain should not be pulled from under a load when the load is resting on the chain.
11. Chains should be stored in an area where they will not be subjected to mechanical damage, corrosive action, moisture, extreme heat, or kinking.
12. The load applied to the hook should be centered in the bowl of hooks to prevent point loading on the hook, unless the hook is designed for point loading.
13. Chains should not be dragged on the floor or over an abrasive surface.
14. When used in a choker hitch arrangement, chains shall be selected to prevent the load developed on any portion of the chain from exceeding the rated load of the chain sling components.
 




from here
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html




after reading the article I agree that chains are almost impossible to verify their strength/ load cap.  therfore clubs would rather not allow them then be liable for breakage.  so it is safer by "idiot proofing"   

Offline Kral4me

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2008, 10:50:44 PM »
I guess my ignorant, non-farmboy ass isn't convinced that a chain will always fall, and will not have any recoil ... also not convinced that a broken chuck of link couldn't become a dangerous projectile.

somebody needs to send this in to mythbusters... :)

How sweet would that be?!

Announcer: "Our next myth to bust was sent in by JT4x4 of CT...."

LOL.

Reg I don't know what to tell you. I always seem to err on the side of caution. I have to agree, I don't think I would let someone tow me/tug me with a chain  :P Of course...there might be times where I don't have that luxury of option LOL!
~J.D.~
"When life gets too hard to stand....crawl."

Offline Rebell Bull

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2008, 11:54:01 PM »
Hey ya'll this is another farm boy ass just putting in his two cents.  Well lets see, I have broken four recovery straps with the loops that I bought at TSC(Tractor Supply Company for all you city folk). Not sure of there rating, but were four inches wide, double ply nylon webbing. I have broken lots of shitty rope when I didn't have a good piece and needed to free something. I have broken zero chains and I have bent frame on my 1984 chevy 3/4 ton pick up. I personally love the chain, you don't get that pull a little then stretch the strap to point of snapping then finally hopefully move vehicle. With a chain you get take out slack, make it tight, give it gas and you just pulled it out. Love the chain. Not to discredit the straps or winch cables they work good too, when they don't break, but they don't last as long and I flat get scared when I see those things stretch(sp). I have seen chains break too, but usually someone didn't hook them right and instead of hooking over the chain, they went through the middle of an eye, or went cheap and bought shitty chain.
Lets go see what I can break next

Offline rocket

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2008, 11:58:46 PM »
as far as the strenght of chain, From an engineers standpoint, it would have to be inspected quite frequently, load tested, etc.  Also, any nick, no mater how small, will significan'ty weaken the link.  Also, steel corodes fairly quickly (corosion is the change of one material to another due to environment.  translation: more rust = less metal = lower strenght)  Wear of a strap can be verified w/ a visual inspection.  and a strap can be replaced cheaper than chain.

Just my .02
1973 Chevy El Camino: 383 sb, lots of power
2004 Toyota Tacoma TRD 3.4L xtra cab 2.5" skyjacker coilovers/leafs, 32x11.5-15" Super Swamper TSL/SXs, Bent-up front bumper, smittybilt winch, 4xInovations sliders, Bud-built skids, custom rear bumper/light bar, hella lights, "custom" body work

Offline Rebell Bull

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2008, 12:30:29 AM »
There is always the reason, a blue shirt needs the Khaki to dissapear to get things done. I still love the chain and it my heavy one is like 10 years old and my one back on the farm is like 20 years old going strong, rust and all. If you want to compare I think I can get the riggers to compare my chain with anyone elses strap or I might be able to get them to weight test it for me, I will see what I can do.
Lets go see what I can break next

Offline rocket

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2008, 12:36:16 AM »
Hey!  there are no khaki or blue shirts in this club!
1973 Chevy El Camino: 383 sb, lots of power
2004 Toyota Tacoma TRD 3.4L xtra cab 2.5" skyjacker coilovers/leafs, 32x11.5-15" Super Swamper TSL/SXs, Bent-up front bumper, smittybilt winch, 4xInovations sliders, Bud-built skids, custom rear bumper/light bar, hella lights, "custom" body work

Offline albsvx

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2008, 12:37:46 AM »
damn crazy code talk
1988 Jeep Wrangler Sahara - 4.0, TF-999, NP-231, Dana 30 Truetrac, Dana 44 Detroit Locker, 4.88s, on 35"s

Offline Rebell Bull

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Re: Rock Crawl competition
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2008, 12:50:51 AM »
I know, just had to poke fun. That is my way a saying farm graduate vs college graduate
Lets go see what I can break next