JT4x4
The Mud Pit => Wrenching => Topic started by: Mayhem on September 03, 2012, 10:09:02 PM
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So, I went to leave home in the TJ Saturday morning and it started just fine. Finished backing out and put it in drive, gassed it and it died. Gauges were still working and it cranked. Wouldn't start though. Then gauges all died and the no bus came up on the odometer. Looked on line and saw that it is often connection problem to the instrument cluster. So today I removed it and checked the connections and grounds and all seemed good. Moved and looked at all the harnesses. Seem fine. Still NO start/no bus. Could be a crank position sensor as well. This sucks. Anybody had experience with this problem?
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I've read somewhere in the past that is an issue with dash plug connection coming loose. Tap/gently beat on the instrument cluster or disassemble and check the connector.
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I thought I had this problem on my XJ, but it turned out to be a bad guage cluster. When I was looking into it, here was a service bulletin that replaced the elctircal connection that goes to the cluster. If you google it you can find the part number. I think it was under $15 from the Jeep dealer and it took about 15 minutes to install. You will need to cut and connect all the wires, but it is not as difficult as it looks. A little heat shrink will make it good as new.
Good Luck.
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Greg- a few questions for you to try and help you troubleshoot.
1. Do you have a grey key or a black one? The grey one has the chip in it which can cuase some problems.
2. Will it run for 2 seconds and shut off or not start at all?
Check out the link to a similarly set up Jeep and the advice out there
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407739 (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407739)
It sounds like the most likely cause is the cam sensor based on your description and it sounds like unplugging it will remove the No Bus indication and if so then it is the sensor. Keep us informed and we can keep trying to help.
If it is the guage connector they list the part number. They also list numbers for heat shrink tube and some other crap that you wouldn't need.
It looks like if it is the Camshaft Sensor it is only $42- $87 depending on brand.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PartSearchCmd?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&pageId=partTypeList&suggestion=&actionSrc=Suggest&langId=-1&searchTerm=camshaft+sensor&vehicleIdSearch=42449&searchedFrom=header#storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&vehicleIdSearch=42449&isAllVehicle=false&navigationPath=&sortBy=4&searchTerm=camshaft+sensor&pageId=ajaxPartList&category=&l1_categoryId=&l2_categoryId=&partType=&beginIndex=0&filterValue=vehicleId1%3A42449*exact&pageSize=10&filters=&selectedPartNumber=&qty=1&ship2HomeClicked= (http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/PartSearchCmd?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&pageId=partTypeList&suggestion=&actionSrc=Suggest&langId=-1&searchTerm=camshaft+sensor&vehicleIdSearch=42449&searchedFrom=header#storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&vehicleIdSearch=42449&isAllVehicle=false&navigationPath=&sortBy=4&searchTerm=camshaft+sensor&pageId=ajaxPartList&category=&l1_categoryId=&l2_categoryId=&partType=&beginIndex=0&filterValue=vehicleId1%3A42449*exact&pageSize=10&filters=&selectedPartNumber=&qty=1&ship2HomeClicked=)
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Thanks Kirk!
Okay.... 1- I have the black key and 2- It won't start/run at all.
Something weird happened tonight while I was looking at it. The turn signal was going very fast and wouldn't stop. Only slowed down when switched. Also, the hazard switch seemed to effect it. Changing the tilt column level made the weird stuff stop happening.
I will check it out more and look at the links you provided and post here what I find.
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Did your clockspring get wet? The turn signal/hazzard issue sounds like a clockspring issue.
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Did your clockspring get wet? The turn signal/hazzard issue sounds like a clockspring issue.
I know Fords have an issue with the clock springs that cause a no start, so it is a good possibility that could cause it. I also remember readi something about Jeep making some wires too short in the steering column which can cause problems.
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Thanks Kirk!
Okay.... 1- I have the black key and 2- It won't start/run at all.
Something weird happened tonight while I was looking at it. The turn signal was going very fast and wouldn't stop. Only slowed down when switched. Also, the hazard switch seemed to effect it. Changing the tilt column level made the weird stuff stop happening.
I will check it out more and look at the links you provided and post here what I find.
Do you get any indications at the gauge cluster? If you unplug the cam sensor do you still get the No Bus light?
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I pulled the camshaft position sensor plug and the no bus still comes up. The brake light on the cluster lights up while cranking. The hazards do not work as they should, but the switch does have an effect on how using the turn signal reacts. Short in harness or hazard switch? Don't think anything got wet, but will google clockspring.
Thanks for all the help!
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I'm not positive on the TJ but at the botton of the steering column are all the wiring plugs. I have had these loosen up on me before and a quick unplug and reconnect worked for my issues. It may help to unplug one at a time to help isolate the problem.
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I'm not positive on the TJ but at the botton of the steering column are all the wiring plugs. I have had these loosen up on me before and a quick unplug and reconnect worked for my issues. It may help to unplug one at a time to help isolate the problem.
Well it sounds like the camshaft sensor is good, it is not the security system, and the gauge cluster wouldn't keep it from starting. If the tilt made some stuff go crazy, it sounds like the steering column might be the problem. Try pulling apart any connection you can, one at a time and checking for bent pins, rust etc...
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Gonna do some more checking today. With the weird stuff happening around the hazard, I'm going to focus in the column area today. Really hoping to figure something out on this today.
Also, could someone please message me the address for the club meeting?
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I don't think a clock spring or a gauge cluster will cause a no start. It sounds like a bad crank sensor but I am used to using a scan tool & watch the crank sensor for a signal so am only taking a wild guess. Crank sensors are very common on the 4.0L. Also could be the cam sensor. Depending on the yr you either have a Distributor with a pick up inside or the DIS set up with just a cam sensor at the top of a short housing in place of where the Distributor was. If you don't have a scan tool then it would be nice if someone had spare parts for you to try. Be very carefull when replacing the cam sensor because it only goes in one way. You must have the engine on TDC before removing it. Too much to explain so just read up on how to replace it. Recomend going for the crank sensor first unless you find someone with a scan tool. Check for codes because that can give you an idea of what the PCM is not seeing. The no bus on the cluster is prob just a bad conection in the back of the cluster. There is a TSB for the conection issue that involves replacing both the conectors behind the cluster (All conections must be soldered) and then using Electral Contact Cleaner (you can buy this at any parts store) & gently clean all the small pins in the back of the cluster. I use a very small round type wire brush to get between the pins. DON'T BEND THE PINS. The pins may look fine but there is a fine coating of carrosion that builds up on them that you usually can't see & synce the bus conection uses 5 volt or less signals then it does not take much carrosion to disrupt the signal. Hope this helps you. Good luck.
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Alrighty then. Not sure whats up with the hazards. Not a big deal right now. Found the problem with the no bus thing. Crank position sensor. Unplugged it and all my gauges came up and the no bus went away. Excellent. Researching this tells me I should order a Genuine Mopar unit. The others show a really high failure rate.
Thanks for all the help!
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Good call Bob!!! ;D
Greg- glad to hear you found the problem!!!
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Glad to hear you fixed your no start issue. The hazard issue is prob just a bad hazard relay. The hazard circuit is usually kept seperate from other circuits just to make shure it works when other circuits fail. But in an inperfect world no mater how well an engeneer builds a circuit it can and will fail at one point. ::)
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The jeep dealer sold me the Crank Position Sensor for manual trans. Mine is an automatic. >:(
Also, I have green colored motor mounts, which I believe are lifted, and seem to be preventing removing the old sensor, as it won't clear the body. Anyone else experience this?
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The jeep dealer sold me the Crank Position Sensor for manual trans. Mine is an automatic. >:(
Also, I have green colored motor mounts, which I believe are lifted, and seem to be preventing removing the old sensor, as it won't clear the body. Anyone else experience this?
I am not familiar with any green motor mounts. The only ones I am familiar with are M.O.R.E. which are gold and have a big M.O.R.E. sticker, and Brown Dog mounts which I believe are black. To pull the motor mount if it is in the way is not too bad of a job. Place a piece of wood under the oil pan and use a floor jack to take the weight of the engine. Loosen the bolts and keep checking the jack to make sure it has the weight of the engine and the mount should come right out. Just be carefull with the exhaust, you only have about an inch or so to move the engine.
It might be helpfull to pull the old one and take it to the dealership since the parts guys are not always the brightest.
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The jeep dealer sold me the Crank Position Sensor for manual trans. Mine is an automatic. >:(
Also, I have green colored motor mounts, which I believe are lifted, and seem to be preventing removing the old sensor, as it won't clear the body. Anyone else experience this?
I am not familiar with any green motor mounts. The only ones I am familiar with are M.O.R.E. which are gold and have a big M.O.R.E. sticker, and Brown Dog mounts which I believe are black. To pull the motor mount if it is in the way is not too bad of a job. Place a piece of wood under the oil pan and use a floor jack to take the weight of the engine. Loosen the bolts and keep checking the jack to make sure it has the weight of the engine and the mount should come right out. Just be carefull with the exhaust, you only have about an inch or so to move the engine.
It might be helpfull to pull the old one and take it to the dealership since the parts guys are not always the brightest.
Okay. I got the proper CPS from the dealer now. Looking into why the old one is hitting the body when I try to remove it, I have found out the I have JKS 1" motor mounts. Guess I am going to have to unbolt them and drop the motor some to get the clearance needed for removal. Anyone got a better idea?
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I don't remeber seeing a 1" Body Lift on your Jeep, so with a 1" MML the space to pull the CPS is gone. I can't think of any other way to replace it then to unbolt the MML and drop the engine on at least one side. Moving the engine around seems intimidating, but as long as you always have one side bolted down it is easy.
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That is correct. There is no body lift. Guess I am going to try just unbolting the driverside and dropping it a little.
Thanks again.