JT4x4
The Mud Pit => Wrenching => Topic started by: Flex on July 14, 2010, 03:36:20 AM
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The winter project arrived today 91 Comanche on 1 ton axles and 37 inch military tires and rims, the engine runs and everything works mechanically except for the front suspension is a shit show. but it only cost 2k delivered to the door so cant complain about that. Let me know what u guys think, and any ideas for the build will be appreciated. The tear down isnt going to start until after summer wheeling season in case i need to get the the jeep back in and fix it. Here's some quick pics i snapped in the drive way.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-12.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-13.jpg)
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I'm fucking jealous. The MJ is awesome.
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did you get this off craigslist?
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I remember you talking about that. I didn't think you would go through with buying it though. Congrats
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Looks like fun......
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I remember you talking about that. I didn't think you would go through with buying it though. Congrats
well my roommate Sam is the one that bought it im just going to help with the build.
did you get this off craigslist?
sure did.
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Is it yours or Sammy's?
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Is it yours or Sammy's?
id be glad to answer question that u could answer by reading all the post.
I remember you talking about that. I didn't think you would go through with buying it though. Congrats
well my roommate Sam is the one that bought it im just going to help with the build.
did you get this off craigslist?
sure did.
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My apologies nathaniel, I was reading it on my mobile device sir. Either way it is sweet and now your neighbors will think you guys are even crazier. Whats with the tail light area though? Needs to be painted black or something, that and the snorkle. How much lift does it have? looks like overkill from the pics, but I guess I'll see it tonight
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the truck is like 5 different colors, but when its all said and done its going to be flat army green. The lift is total over kill its at 10" so we r going to come down to 8" and run the tires that are now on it. 8" will allow us to run the current tire size (37) with out cutting it up so it will still look like a truck when we are done.
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That's good - was considering that color for mine at some point. Guess ill have to do desert tan
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looks like a fun project! That front end looks scary right now!
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what is the purpose of the yellow strap
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so i said the front suspension was a mess, guess ill elaborate, currently there is no form of upper control arm. So to have something to keep the front pinion at some kind of correct angle the strap was used, it was good enough to drive the truck onto the trailer and then off into my driveway. So i guess it did its job, however when it comes time to throw something that will work in this think we will prob go with a tnt longarm set up, and theres a possibility that we could do a custom 3 link.
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Them h1 tires are very stiff my buddy has them on his cj 8 and he took off the other day to go wheeling aka play in the sand he went um air down and realized he had NO VALVE STEM CORE and you could not tell he runs about 10 psi in them normally
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do you know if the unibody has anything to stiffen it at all? i would recommend that also currie makes a good heavy duty steering kit for xj's and im sure they make them for mj's also.
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Them h1 tires are very stiff my buddy has them on his cj 8 and he took off the other day to go wheeling aka play in the sand he went um air down and realized he had NO VALVE STEM CORE and you could not tell he runs about 10 psi in them normally
yea i told sam the tire where stiff but the goal is to keep this thing a cheap as we can, plus he will be locked front and rear with bullet prof axles so he can hammer this thing as hard as he want so that can really make up for any draw back. And did i say that this is sam first 4X4 rig, so he's gonna be pretty happy with anything.
do you know if the unibody has anything to stiffen it at all? i would recommend that also currie makes a good heavy duty steering kit for xj's and im sure they make them for mj's also.
yes the whole bottom side of the trucks gonna be plated with 3/16" plate, u know i think if i didnt then no one would believe i built it. As for the steering we r using DOM tubing with not sure what the connecting ends r but they r something really beefy, the kit all came from ballistic fab, they came with the jeep and just need to be welded up, but thanks for the suggestions.
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Got the mj in to the garage today started ordering parts, the plan is to take care of the drive train and suspension first the worry about the body and armor, looks like both front and rear diffs are going to get lincoln locker and plan on running the the tnt longarms for suspension. So figure id just give an update hopefully this thing will be ready to go by next spring.
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sweet man, really makes me rethink the whole process of building a jeep. Sammy is doing it the right way. Cheap trail rig with the right axles and long arms and lockers right off the bat. Should be a hit on the trails along side the Chuggy!
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So last couple days ive been working on the the MJ figured id throw up some pics.
Started by pulling the rear axle just because this is the easiest part of the build and after its done i dont have to waste jack stands supporting the rear, just got done welding on all the bracketry for the leaf spring perches and shock mounts, i ended up using my Hobart 140 with .035 wire with the wire speed turned way down and i got plenty of penetration, (that's what she said).
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-16.jpg)
Im really thinking its going to be just fine
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-14.jpg)
After that i moved on to the spider gears and did a Hobart locker, originally the plan was to do a lunch box in the rear but after realizing that they where over $400 we decided to go a cheaper route, with a wheel base around 126" i dont four-see the issues that wranglers tend to have with a welded diff and if worst comes to worst Sam will just shell out the cash and put a detroit in the rear or maybe even a selectable so that we can run a cutting brake and help his turning we he gets sandwiched between trees.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-15.jpg)
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Go as thick bs you can afford on the steering linkage i bent my 1.5" by 1/4" this weekend i am stepping up to 2" by .5" soon
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Go as thick bs you can afford on the steering linkage i bent my 1.5" by 1/4" this weekend i am stepping up to 2" by .5" soon
We r gonna run 1.5" .25 wall DOM with high steer arms so they will rarely get touched but even if they do its 1.5" quarter wall so i should be ok.
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That is what i bent high steer shoulde keep it way up go the clear for getting all of your steering parts i got all my stuff from parts mike they have the best customer service out of any one i got parts from and when the postal service lost my pit man arm they over nighted me a new arm Free of charge so i could go wheeling last weekend and there machining is top notch for the knuckles
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Got to rear axle all painted up and ready to bolt in tomorrow after the paint drys.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-19.jpg)
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Slowly but surely the old heap is coming together.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-20.jpg)
But u gotta admit, that's a sexy rear end.
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I will admit it is very sexy, but do you really want to re-use axle U bolts or is that just temporary?
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I will admit it is very sexy, but do you really want to re-use axle U bolts or is that just temporary?
Why not?
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some people say not to Because they are a class 4 fit a slight interfearance to keep the nuts tight when you loosen the nuts they do not get as tight as before i have never had a problem
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yea if they break ill fix them but i dont think thats something im gonna be to worried about.
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I have always been taught to replace them because the metal stretches, and they could theoretically break while driving down the highway. I guess for a trail rig it shouldn't matter much.
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I have always been taught to replace them because the metal stretches, and they could theoretically break while driving down the highway. I guess for a trail rig it shouldn't matter much.
As a guy with a Mech E degree, I can say that Duece is right. For a street rig, you can usually get away with using the U-bolts twice since you can usually put more torque on then the factory and add a little stretch. Never re-use U-bolts more then twice. For a trail rig, I would definity get new U-bolts, the laterial stress is a lot more with a trail rig. U-bolts are cheap parts that can prevent a bad day on the trail.
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So we got the interior all fixed up, just got to figure out how to mount a 5 point harness to this milk crate
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-21.jpg)
Got the front 60 out of the way if i had more room i could start the tear down and all the welding that this axle is going to need but we just have enough room to make that happen, so we r going to go ahead and tackle all the frame stiffing, boat side and the long arms then move on to the axle.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-23.jpg)
So the previous owner did a few things that are really less than ideal so his fix to stripped out nutserts had to be cut out.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-26.jpg)
So to fix this a 3/16" plate we be welded in the holes drilled and just drop the nuts in from the top, then all this will be wrapped with the frame stiffners this is about the strongest way i can come up to fix the problem, any suggestions are welcome.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-24.jpg)
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I've got an up date. Got the middle frame stiffeners welded on and the cross member all bolted up. Also got the driver side front stiffener welded on then i ran out of gas, plan is to have the front axle under the jeep by the end of the week, only time well tell. Heres some pics for anyone that cares.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-30.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-28.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-31.jpg)
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You ran out of Gas....Yea right!... lol
Who make's the cross member? Is that one of the link mounts built into it? If so, won't it be a pain to drop the cross member to work on the transfercase?
It's looking good, keep the pic's coming!
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You ran out of Gas....Yea right!... lol
Who make's the cross member? Is that one of the link mounts built into it? If so, won't it be a pain to drop the cross member to work on the transfercase?
It's looking good, keep the pic's coming!
tnt makes the crossmember and the link arms bolt into it on both sides the the upper arms tap off the lower arms. So yea its a pain in the A$$ to do tranny or t-case work however ground clearance is awesome b/c everything is tucked up on top of the crossmember.
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Nate your welding is looking better and better, those look really clean, good job.
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Nate your welding is looking better and better, those look really clean, good job.
thanks i was hoping someone would say that, i thought they looked pretty good myself.
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Got started on the boatside today decided to run it all the way back to front of the rear tire this will protect the bed from getting to beat up. Hoping to have it all finished by the end of the week. Here's some pics.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-36.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-35.jpg)
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oh hell yeah, that is beefy. Good job.
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yea its 2X4" 3/16" thick shoud be good to go.
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Cap the ends, tap into them from inside the cab and use them as air tanks.
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Cap the ends, tap into them from inside the cab and use them as air tanks.
yea i just calculated it and it would be the volume of about 5 gal if used both sides ill deff cap them and then down the road we can tap them for an air resivor.
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When u set it up for air, ensure you provide a way to drain it; you don't want it to rust out and blow up on ya!
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So i got the boat side done on the passenger side they turned out pretty good im going to wait till i get some dimple dies to skin these things bad boys, however i did end up capping the ends so if we want use these as air banks down the road we can. Still waiting on some brackets for the axle, should be able to finish the driver side boat side by the end of the week. Also ordered 11 feet of 2X6 3/16 tubing for the front and rear bumpers should take to horribly long to get those knocked out. well heres some pics and a video or what happens when we couldnt find the can opener.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk9HR7OoIyQ
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-37.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-38.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-40.jpg)
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well heres a video or what happens when we couldnt find the can opener.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk9HR7OoIyQ
Funny... ;D
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Thought I'd share this link. Found it a while back, bookmarked it, and just remembered I had it reading over your thread and your plans for Olive Drab.
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f177/rattle-can-paint-jobs-702988/index2.html
Second page of the thread, post number 23 by diskman_1. Check out what he did with his home mixed Olive Drab on his XJ. Looked good to me and its cheap. Post number 30, the same guy explains how he mixed the paint, thinned it, and rolled it on.
I think if I was going to do Olive Drab on anything, I would at least try this. Its got to be easy to fix when you mess it up and its cheap enough you don't mind messing it up to begin with.
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hey nate if you need to sand blast anything let me know... my dad just had one given to him....
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hey nate if you need to sand blast anything let me know... my dad just had one given to him....
thanks for the offer but i dont intend on sand blasting and thing.
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just throwin it out there lol
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So i've got a little update for the thread, i finished the driver side boat side and and its ready to weld in i didnt snap any pics didnt think it was worth if since it just mimics the passenger side which there are already pics of. however i also got the rear bumper done which i think turned out killer heres some pics let me know what u think.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-42.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-43.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-44.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-45.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-46.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-47.jpg)
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Looking good. Still thinking you'll have it ready for Toys for Tots?
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Looking good. Still thinking you'll have it ready for Toys for Tots?
Yea prob not to be honest
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dude, you are getting good at this shit...
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That is just just plain SEXY!
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thanks guys this gives me alot of incentive to stay out in the garage and get this thing done.
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you could literally sell those nate, the welds are very clean, keep up the good work man!
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Got some updates, thing are moving alittle faster the interior is almost done, just have to get the seats mounted and mount an ammo can mounted for the center console. The front bumper is done just needs paint, heres some pics. originally i wanted to put a small stinger on the bumper but i dont have any DOM sitting around, so if any one has about an 4 ft piece of 1-5/8th .120 wall sitting around let me know if not ill porb. just add a stinger when i get some tubing for the exo cage.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-48.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-49.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-50.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-51.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-52.jpg)
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That is some beautiful fab work Nate. Im gettin out of the way when that thing comes down the trail. Don't no if you already posted this but does that Comanche have the stock engine,trans,Tcase & whats the gearing in the axels? That is a bad ass trail rig Nate. Your going to have some fun with that thing!!!
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That looks great, nice work Nate but will the rig have the important stuff like heat, AC and a kickin stereo?
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That is some beautiful fab work Nate. Im gettin out of the way when that thing comes down the trail. Don't no if you already posted this but does that Comanche have the stock engine,trans,Tcase & whats the gearing in the axels? That is a bad ass trail rig Nate. Your going to have some fun with that thing!!!
Ok so the drive train is a pretty big disappointment, Just the stock 4.0L, AX-15 and NP-231, the axles get alittle better but not much HP Dana 60 with a sterling 10.5 w/ the stock 4.10 gears so with running 37's 5th gear is going to be pretty un-usable. To lock everything together its just gonna be lincoln lockers front and rear. with the wheel base being so long im thinking this thing should be drivable on the street. maybe down the road when funds allow we might throw a decent gear ratio at these axles with a selectable locker in the rear, and then maybe a set of 40's. But as for know we are just trying to get this thing done so we can get it on the trail.
That looks great, nice work Nate but will the rig have the important stuff like heat, AC and a kickin stereo?
Heat yes, A/C ill have to look and see if this one came stock with a/c if so im sure i can make it work, kickin stereo? well there is currently no head unit installed but there is still speakers in the door so just have to try to find something cheap to play the tunes, however most of these things are falling pretty low on the priority list.
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The only sound you will need to hear is the poor rocks getting smashed by those custom rock rails & bumpers
The 4.0L & AX15 are a great combo. The 231 should hold up ok. Might not want to drive it like ROCK tho. Thats a lot of heavy drive train to be turning (D60 & Sterling 10.5 W/37s).
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So Duece came over today and we got lots of stuff done. The welds on the inner c's have been ground off ready to be heated and turned to the desired caster, also most of the brackets have been welded and assembled so im hoping tomorrow i can start tacking brackets in place then pull the axle and get the knuckles turned. Also the interior in nearly 100% complete, sry no pics of the interior.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-54.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-55.jpg)
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a few more pics i snagged crawling around under the jeep.
(http://i52.tinypic.com/23thzdy.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/264p9qq.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/ou0e46.jpg)
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So today we turned the inner C's and wow was this interesting, so we ended up putting the axle up on the bench and in the vice, the pinion was in a position so that when we beat on the inner C's the axle couldn't rotate due to the pinion being pushed into the bench, also we positioned a jack under the opposite ear of the inner c this aloud to keep a constant pressure on the C so that it wouldn't take as much force to turn. After everything was set up we stuffed ice inside the axle tube this would keep the tube itself from heating up and expanding when we heated the inner c, after everything was ready to go we got the oxy acetylene torch fired up, we where using a cutting nozzle size 3 this is normally used for cutting 3-6" steel however since the bottles im using don't have enough volume to be able to allow the acetylene to go from a liquid to a gas fast enough to get this big of a tip coned out and ready to cut, this fact along with a little but of extra distance aloud use to just heat the C's instead of cut them, it took about 3-4 min of heating the C's and them some hits with a 10 lb sledge and we where able to turn the C's back 10.5 degrees this will compute to 5 degrees of caster once we get the rig all together. Here's some pics to clear up the confusion.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-58.jpg)
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-57.jpg)
This is the setup we tried first, the pinion was pushing down into the cart and the it was flexing way to much, the jack sledge combo worked much better
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-56.jpg)
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wow, glad you got it done, when you told me about it I was a little skeptical.
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Ok so lots of progress made on the Comanche, been so busy in fact that i haven't even had a chance to take some pics but tomorrow i will post some up.
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Ok so lots of progress made on the Comanche, been so busy in fact that i haven't even had a chance to take some pics but tomorrow i will post some up.
Tease!
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So i promised pics and pictures you will get.
So the front bumper and steering box have been put in, im using the jcr box support and then the bolts also run threw the bumper so i'm really hoping that i dont have the issue that i'm having now with my jeep with all the creeks that the uni-body is doing. Also All of the brackets have been welded on the the new axle and its been bolted in i think the suspension needs a little adjusting but it shouldnt be to big of a deal. The knuckles, hubs and brakes have all been finished for the driver side but still waiting on a high steer arm for the passenger side so that the knuckle can be put together. Big things that we have left are figuring out what we are going to do for drive shafts currently the old drive shafts had the stock 1310 yokes however the rear had been lengthened by the previous owner but he thought exhaust tubing would work, so now the rear drive shafts is junk, so i need to make a decision do i get some tubing that is the correct length and weld the desired yokes onto it, this really wouldnt be to hard however im looking at about $60 in a yoke, the other option would be call tom woods. Now onto the front shaft its just the stock shaft so again the yoke is to small. However i may be able to save some money and just get a drive shaft from a truck that used a 1410 u-joint and cut the yokes off and use those this would save some money, what do u guys think?
Front bumper on down the road winch fair leads may be added with the winch in the cab.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-61.jpg)
Still waiting on a tube adapter and some hiem joint spacers so i can install the trac bar
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-62.jpg)
So here you can see that the suspension needs some adjustment im thinking move the axle back about 2 inchs or so
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-64.jpg)
After getting all the outer's together i couldnt resist throwing a tire on it, ok i know it looks the same as when i started.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-63.jpg)
And also yet another use for a high lift jack.
(http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx135/flexjt4x4/photo-65.jpg)
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How are you fitting those stock H1 Beadlock wheels on the front without hitting the knuckle or tie rod? Everything I had read so far was saying with their stock 7" offset you either needed to recenter them to an offset around 4.5-5" or use a 2" wheel spacer.
As for your drive shafts...
Are you sure your front yoke is a 1410 yoke? I thought the Ford fronts used a 1350 joints at the yoke.
The 14 bolt rear (I think you said that is what you are using?) should be a 1350 joint as well. You can get a crossover joint Spicer number 5-460X to allow you to use the 1310 drive shaft with a 1350 pinion yoke. That should allow you fix your rear drive shaft and bolt it up with the switch joint.
As for your front, I would either extend it yourself or build your own with your current yokes. Fronts don't spin constantly with lock out hubs and it just needs to be stong. Balancing isn't as much of an issue. I've even seen guys on pirate build then out of two pieces of square stock. The center piece was around 1 1/4" solid square bar stock and the outer was something like 2" square tube with 3/8" wall. The two slid right together and he was able to make it with a very long slip joint so it would never slide apart. If I remember right the guy said he had been wheeling it that way for about 2 years with no problems.
For my build, I plan on getting a new rear shaft as I already need one anyways as I am installing a SYE at the same time. For the front, I am going to see if the stock one will work with the conversion joint. It might be a little long, but if it is I will shorten it myself after which I will use a conversion join there as well.
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Found the pictures of that front drive shaft I was talking about. Even if it doesn't help you, figured I would post it for others to see.
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847504/fullsize/jeepbuildpicscd1122.jpg)
(https://www.supermotors.net/getfile/847505/fullsize/jeepbuildpicscd1123.jpg)
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Dosent look like i will have an issues with the current rim backspacing but ill take another look.
As for as u-joints i was pretty sure these are 1410 but if there 1350 then ill just use a conversion u joint however ill still need to make a rear drive shaft probably out of some DOM due to the one that came installed is trash.
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What diameter is the tube of the drive shaft?
You might be able to get by cheaper by using something around 1/2" or bigger wall regular non-DOM tube. I'm sure if you went with something that heavy it would hold up fine and you'd still be cheaper then DOM.
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So the Comanche project is nearly complete just waiting a few parts to come it. ill have pics next week hopefully while its driving down the road.
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So the Comanche project is nearly complete just waiting a few parts to come it. ill have pics next week hopefully while its driving down the road.
Sounds like a Trail Ride is needed!
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So the Comanche project is nearly complete just waiting a few parts to come it. ill have pics next week hopefully while its driving down the road.
Anything new? Where are those pictures?
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No pictures, however we did take the Comanche out on her maiden voyage today. It was successful as far as drove around the block and no one died. However when coming in and out of the gas the steering would jerk semi-violently to the right or left. Here some more details, still need to make a rear drive shaft so we where driving in 4x4 high with one hub locked, i did try swapping which hub was lock but nothing changed. We never exceeded 30 mphs. Jerking was happening at all speeds.
Give me some ideas, ask questions if you need more specifics. Thanks
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Remind me, did you use a lockright in the front or weld up the spiders? I have an aussie in the front and a lockright in the rear and when I had just the aussie up front it did some mild jerking but once i did the rear it is much worse! I have gotten use to it but the jeep will jerk about three feet left or right When shifting 9at lest it feels like that much) and i have to be careful in a tight turn to either stay on the or off the gas in the turn or risk jumping into the gutter or oncoming traffic!
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The front is welded, im hoping once i get a rear drive shaft and have the ability to go 2 wheel drive this while go away. its good to know im not the only one with this problem.
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the jerking you felt was torque steer(just like a front wheel drive) mine does the same thing when in 1 wheel drive (aka 4hi one hub locked) if you lock both hubs it is a pita to steer some tire chirping but no jerking when i broke a rear u joint this winter i found it easier to just run the both hubs locked and just push in the clutch to steer
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Let me start by saying that I think these guys are right about the torque steer idea, however there is something else it could be.
Can we see some pictures of your drag link and track bar up front? If they are not in line properly you'll experience bump steer. It doesn't sound like that is what you have going on, but just throwing it out there as a possibility.
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So I tacked up a rear drive shaft last night and drove in 2 wheeldrive, everything was smooth it was like driving new euorpeanen sports car, ok not really but it's fixed. Sam will be driving it to the church this morning so anyone there can check it out