JT4x4
The Mud Pit => General => Topic started by: cj-nh on January 08, 2008, 01:54:46 AM
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Hot Rod-
Here is one of the clubs that sponsors a great Rock crawl competition. It is a blast. I am sure you can google for pictures of past events, they have been doing it for 6 years. Only down side is that it is about 3.5hrs away.
http://www.deepwoodsextreme.com/index.htm
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thanks, i am looking right now....
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Here is a NH based magazine that covers a lot of regional stuff.
http://www.low-range.com/index.htm
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yeah i finally read everything, i still need a winch and a winch weight?
some kind of roll cage/exo
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thinking about getting competitive Jon??? maybe your sponcers will give you more stickers.
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thinking about getting competitive Jon??? maybe your sponcers will give you more stickers.
he doesn't have sponsers? oh, i though w/ all the adverstising (stickers) that he was at least getting something
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it has nothing to do with a winch and a good front bumper
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His biggest sponsor........Submarine Car Wash... ;D ;D ;D
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free is free, esp car wash in the winter, any day and every day to wash all the salt off. plus vac, windows, and interior.
the sticker paid for it's self on the first wash.
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His biggest sponsor........
and most colorful
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free is free, esp car wash in the winter, any day and every day to wash all the salt off. plus vac, windows, and interior.
the sticker paid for it's self on the first wash.
So since you are so tight with the Owner then I can expect some good kickback tickets/coupons/discounts/free washes for any raffles I might be putting together? ;D
I like having stickers all over. It looks cool. I wish my Jeep was clean so I can put mine on...hmmmm...clean Jeep. Oxymoron. ;D
You gonna do this rock crawling comp thing then, seriously?! Can I come take pics?! LOL Use you shamelessly to promote JT4x4!? ;)
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well, i am still out for a winch and a winch weight what ever that is.
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well, i am still out for a winch and a winch weight what ever that is.
Meaning you need a winch to run this course? (I didn't read the rules hmmmm). Dad bought my Chicago Electric for like $250. Slooooooow but works like a mother. Costs a quarter of other ones too. ;)
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the weight is probably something wiith the copacity of the winch or maybe the weight of your rig.
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I think they mean a line weight which is a lead lined blanket usefull for making sure the line doesnt kill your spotter if it snaps
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no, it says winch weight right on the registration form
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probally compacity
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that's all i can find
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I think they mean a line weight which is a lead lined blanket usefull for making sure the line doesnt kill your spotter if it snaps
Do jackets count?
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I think they mean a line weight which is a lead lined blanket usefull for making sure the line doesnt kill your spotter if it snaps
Do jackets count?
you don't need said devices with synth line...
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still not a bad idea, I mean, sure, you won't get cut, or killed by synth line, but I bet it'd still hurt
the idea is simply that putting weight on the line will cause the line to fall to the ground, and hopefully recoil, if any, will be straight back, as opposed to letting it be erratic and having no idea where the line is heading should it snap.
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theory understood... why I use chain instead of pull straps
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Eeeek!
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Eeeek!
???
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how did i know you were going to say that al
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theory understood... why I use chain instead of pull straps
You are just joking right?! ???
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theory understood... why I use chain instead of pull straps
You are just joking right?! ???
nope.. I have a 14-16 foot log chain I use and have used for years, pull forklifts, i ton trucks, if it does break (which would take an act of GOD) it will fall straight down. the links absorb the recoil. it isn't a whimpy trailer chain. it's a no shit CHAIN. next time I see you I'll break it out. here is a pic
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e249/xjreg/100_0420.jpg)
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fyi: that will not be allowed as a tow strap on most other ec4wda runs, every club that I'm aware of will require a fabric strap, with sewn loops on the ends, no metal hooks.
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fyi: that will not be allowed as a tow strap on most other ec4wda runs, every club that I'm aware of will require a fabric strap, with sewn loops on the ends, no metal hooks.
just like you got a cb, i'll get that tow strap. but I'm going to opt for my chain until someone says somthing. I've seen too many of them damn things break windshield, windshield pilliars, etc...
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looking for ec4wda rules..... can't find it. help please
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I don't believe that ec4wda has any set region wide rules.
I was speaking only from experience, check the wheeling rules on any other clubs websites.
When a club is hosting an event, and you are piggybacking from another club, they will expect you to follow their rules.
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ctjeep
http://www.ctjeep.org/ctjeep3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=236 (http://www.ctjeep.org/ctjeep3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=236)
b4w
http://berkshire4wheelers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=212 (http://berkshire4wheelers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=212)
lior
http://www.ec4wda.org/LIOR/2008trails/2008trails.htm (http://www.ec4wda.org/LIOR/2008trails/2008trails.htm)
ntc
http://toyotacrawlers.com/clubinfo1.html (http://toyotacrawlers.com/clubinfo1.html)
e4w's rules only reference tow points, not straps
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thanks al. but all i see is the prohibition of metal hooks on tow straps.. hich are VERY dangrous. I would cll my chain above min requirements. there is nothing that prohibits my chain as a legal means of towage... if there is somthing i am missing PLEASE enlighten me. As long as it is attached to a shackle, and the hooks I have lockonto the chain NOT THROUGH the links, it is in every way safer and stronger than a recovery strap...
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I'm certainly not able to argue the safety of chain vs. strap from any form of experience, but personally, I wouldn't want you towing me with chain, nor would I want to be towing you with chain.
it just sounds dangerous
what I do know, is that most of the clubs say that fabric strap with sewn loops is a requirement
no, they do not specifically say that chain is not allowed, but they also don't specifically say that bungy cord, rope, jumper cable or a million other things that some people might thing is okay for towing is not allowed
you experience may vary, but I'm almost certain I've seen people told that chain was unacceptable ... not possitive
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thank you al, I just grew up in oilfield country where chain is king. ;D It was my understanding that tow straps are lighter and easier to carry in the rig. I don't mean to sound obtuse, but why would you not feel confortable being towed by a chain? I wonder if anyone has done a chain vs 'tow strap' study??
Straps wear out over time and should be replaced, chains (if taken care of) last longer than my jeep probally will ::)
The greatest benefit to looped straps is they stay connected to the rig better and are more 'paint friendly' I'm not trying to argue to prove anything... I am just interested in the WHY. I plan on buying a strap because I can get more length and can store it better. But for a good old tug... i like my chain.
searching now for chain vs strap ;)
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I guess my ignorant, non-farmboy ass isn't convinced that a chain will always fall, and will not have any recoil ... also not convinced that a broken chuck of link couldn't become a dangerous projectile.
somebody needs to send this in to mythbusters... :)
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As far as the whole chain to recovery strap issue.... I carry a military 8' recovery and the "orange chain of freedom" I have seen a chain break... I have also seen a frame break from a chain, each instance the chain did recoil but not to the point that I would stop using it... you just have to be mindful that it can happen. The recoil of the chain was far less than that of a winch using steel line. and we all know what that's like.
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got some info from pirate 4x4
Chain
Another piece of gear you see on the trail all the time. It can be extremely useful and versatile, but is very often misused. If chain is going to be used anywhere in a recovery operation (and personally, I think this should be avoided if possible, because of the hazards, and most importantly because often grade, strength, and condition are difficult to verify), it should only be Grade 80 Alloy Steel chain of a size suitable for the task.
Chain for alloy steel chain slings shall conform to the requirements of ASTM A391/A 391M, Standard Specification for Grade 80 Alloy Steel Chain. Rated
loads for alloy steel chain slings shall be based on a minimum design factor of 4
Requirements for attachments to alloy steel chain slings follow:
1. Hooks, rings, oblong links, pear-shaped links, mechanical coupling links, or other attachments shall have a rated load at least equal to that of the alloy steel chain with which they are used.
Inspection:
Chain and attachments should display no wear, nicks, cracks, breaks, gouges, stretch, bends, weld splatter, discoloration from excessive temperature, or excessive throat opening of hooks. Chain links and attachments shall hinge freely with adjacent links. Latches on hooks, if present, should hinge freely and seat properly without evidence of permanent distortion.
Operating Practices.
Operating practices and guidelines for the use of alloy steel chains are as follows:
1. Chain having suitable characteristics for the type of load, hitch, and environment shall be selected.
2. The weight of the load shall be within the rated load (working load limit) of the chain.
3. Chains shall not be shortened or lengthened by knotting, twisting, or other methods not approved by the chain manufacturer.
4. Chains that appear to be damaged shall not be used unless they are inspected and accepted as usable in accordance with the periodic inspection requirements stated above.
5. The chain shall be hitched or rigged in a manner providing control of the load.
6. Sharp corners in contact with the chain should be padded with material of sufficient strength to minimize damage to the chain.
7. Portions of the human body should be kept from between the chain and the load and from between the chain and the winch hook.
8. Personnel should stand clear of the recovery.
9. Shock loading is prohibited.
10. Chain should not be pulled from under a load when the load is resting on the chain.
11. Chains should be stored in an area where they will not be subjected to mechanical damage, corrosive action, moisture, extreme heat, or kinking.
12. The load applied to the hook should be centered in the bowl of hooks to prevent point loading on the hook, unless the hook is designed for point loading.
13. Chains should not be dragged on the floor or over an abrasive surface.
14. When used in a choker hitch arrangement, chains shall be selected to prevent the load developed on any portion of the chain from exceeding the rated load of the chain sling components.
from here
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/index.html)
after reading the article I agree that chains are almost impossible to verify their strength/ load cap. therfore clubs would rather not allow them then be liable for breakage. so it is safer by "idiot proofing"
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I guess my ignorant, non-farmboy ass isn't convinced that a chain will always fall, and will not have any recoil ... also not convinced that a broken chuck of link couldn't become a dangerous projectile.
somebody needs to send this in to mythbusters... :)
How sweet would that be?!
Announcer: "Our next myth to bust was sent in by JT4x4 of CT...."
LOL.
Reg I don't know what to tell you. I always seem to err on the side of caution. I have to agree, I don't think I would let someone tow me/tug me with a chain :P Of course...there might be times where I don't have that luxury of option LOL!
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Hey ya'll this is another farm boy ass just putting in his two cents. Well lets see, I have broken four recovery straps with the loops that I bought at TSC(Tractor Supply Company for all you city folk). Not sure of there rating, but were four inches wide, double ply nylon webbing. I have broken lots of shitty rope when I didn't have a good piece and needed to free something. I have broken zero chains and I have bent frame on my 1984 chevy 3/4 ton pick up. I personally love the chain, you don't get that pull a little then stretch the strap to point of snapping then finally hopefully move vehicle. With a chain you get take out slack, make it tight, give it gas and you just pulled it out. Love the chain. Not to discredit the straps or winch cables they work good too, when they don't break, but they don't last as long and I flat get scared when I see those things stretch(sp). I have seen chains break too, but usually someone didn't hook them right and instead of hooking over the chain, they went through the middle of an eye, or went cheap and bought shitty chain.
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as far as the strenght of chain, From an engineers standpoint, it would have to be inspected quite frequently, load tested, etc. Also, any nick, no mater how small, will significan'ty weaken the link. Also, steel corodes fairly quickly (corosion is the change of one material to another due to environment. translation: more rust = less metal = lower strenght) Wear of a strap can be verified w/ a visual inspection. and a strap can be replaced cheaper than chain.
Just my .02
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There is always the reason, a blue shirt needs the Khaki to dissapear to get things done. I still love the chain and it my heavy one is like 10 years old and my one back on the farm is like 20 years old going strong, rust and all. If you want to compare I think I can get the riggers to compare my chain with anyone elses strap or I might be able to get them to weight test it for me, I will see what I can do.
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Hey! there are no khaki or blue shirts in this club!
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damn crazy code talk
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I know, just had to poke fun. That is my way a saying farm graduate vs college graduate
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I have not read this whole thread but here is the basics I know about chain vs. Straps.
Recovery straps are specifically designed to stretch and recoil,(Different from a rated lifting strap) which makes for a smoother better pull and removes stress on the vehicles since it has "give".
I have never wheeled with a club that allows chain on their trail rides. I broken strap doesn't render any serious injury. I broken chain would cause lots of injury to person and vehicles.
Chains are definitely not allowed on the competition circuit. IOn top of it, most semi-pro type competitions only allow synthetic line winches. They are very safety focused.
Last note, a winch weight is a line weight. It can be a sand filled bag (kind of shaped like a sadlebag) or a giant plastic puck that is on line(like a donut).
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well, i have used both.
chain for towing/pulling.
strap for snatch/yanking.
i think common sence needs to be applied for every occasion, but i'd rather the strap stretch less/instead off my frame, i am stuck in the mud.
agreeing to disagree is ok too boys.
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well, i have used both.
chain for towing/pulling.
strap for snatch/yanking.
i think common sence needs to be applied for every occasion, but i'd rather the strap stretch less/instead off my frame, i am stuck in the mud.
agreeing to disagree is ok too boys.
concur....
Obviously the Farm Boys (even though we heard nothing from Doball on this one) agree that they would rather have a chain...
Personal preference. I know that hooking a tractor to a broke down combine (Glidden)... I'm not going to trust a nylon/poly strap... I'll go out to the barn and find the biggest damn chain I can find.
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Personal preference. I know that hooking a tractor to a broke down combine (Glidden)... I'm not going to trust a nylon/poly strap... I'll go out to the barn and find the biggest damn chain I can find.
That just struck me as friggin hilarious for some reason....I haven't seen a combine in years...sweet. Thanks for the memories Brad LOL!
In that case...I think even I (for all of my stuck up and strap snob nature) would use a chain! :P ;) :-*
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That just struck me as friggin hilarious for some reason....I haven't seen a combine in years...sweet. Thanks for the memories Brad LOL!
You havn't? I guess w/ me living out in the farm country i see more of that. They use them to harvest the corn out here
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then slop the hog's, and rastle up the chickens for the eggs and chop wood for the dinner fire.
what a good life. seriously. i'd like a farm.
for all that wheeling land!!!
sorry for hijack
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there's a working farm in my backyard.
mostly corn though, some other veggies, and I think he just got into chickens and is talking about pigs, but nothing too huge yet.
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wifes grandfather has a farm in maine. beautiful.
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Obviously the Farm Boys (even though we heard nothing from Doball on this one) agree that they would rather have a chain...
Personal preference. I know that hooking a tractor to a broke down combine (Glidden)...
ahhhhhhh... early in the morning headed to work, driving with the sunrise behind me, when over the horizon, the shiny gleaner comes over the hill just enough to reflect the rays to catch your eye. you know that guy has been out there all night, making his money, tired and uncomfortable, but rain clouds are gathering and he knows he has to push another 6 hours or he'll have to wait another week to finish the cut. AND THE POOR GUY STILL WAVES AT YOU WHEN YOU DRIVE BY!!!
damn i want to go home.
how is this for 'flex'? ;D
(http://www.wheatfarm.com/comparo/pictures/mh2-2.jpg)
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:o Man those things are huge....
(I edited cause I used the wrong smiley face LOL...)
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sweet
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not that big, actually quit small.
here is a big one, the largest actually
(http://www.toytractortimes.com/october05/lexion/images/septle19.jpg)
(http://www.bird-x.com/links/New%20Products%20Page_files/91304Claas.jpg)
(http://www.claas.com/omaha/generator/common/bilder/claas-com/product-world-us/corn2135-x564y377.jpg,property=data,lang=en_US-OMAHA.jpg)
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these are more common where I am from: still large
(http://www.deere.com/en_US/newsroom/media/images/2007/releases/farmersandranchers/highres/70_series_combines3.jpg)
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these are my favorites:
(http://www.hillcotechnologies.com/image/CIH2.jpg)
(http://www.hillcotechnologies.com/image/CIH1.jpg)
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cool
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how did we get to harvesters?
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gastank started it... and then i couldn't stop
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Admit it, Reg, you're an addict. :D
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admitting is the first step...
NO I'M NOT
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REG = HFH
horney for harvesters
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(http://www.cave76.org/forums/images/smiles/monkey.gif)(http://mywebtimes.com/archives/photog/photos/mednails/09-28-03_10-04-03/10-03-03/combine.gif)
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SWEET!!!
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I was simply stating that my faith lies in chain... I apologize for the actions of REG... he knows not what he does.
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I was simply stating that my faith lies in chain... I apologize for the actions of REG... he knows not what he does.
ohh, but i do!