Author Topic: Help  (Read 1587 times)

Offline Bill3753

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Help
« on: April 24, 2011, 06:50:29 AM »
I could use some help tomorrow is anyone out there has a shop press.  I have a 12 ton, but its just not cutting it.

I managed to make this



Into this



When I replaced the arbor plate with a piece of 1/2" plate steel, I started pushing fluid out the pump area of the bottle jack and bowing the cross beam on the press.  12 tons just isn't enough.

Anyways, what I am trying to do is press the outter bearing on my 14 bolt pinion far enough to just start collapsing the crush sleeve.  I can get it on the pinion straight and just far enough to make contact with the crush sleeve, but after that my press just doesn't have enough power to finish it off.

If anyone has a larger press or an idea that might help, let me know.  My number is (757) 619-9239.  Call or text me.  I'm running out of ideas.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 06:54:12 AM by Bill3753 »
04 TJ, HP60, 14 Bolt, 5.13's, linked, locked, on 38's and (still) in the works.

Offline skibum

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Re: Help
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 02:49:57 PM »
Not understanding why you are using a press to crush the crush coller. You should only use the pinion nut with well lubed threads. I do understand that it is very hard to crush that coller. You will need a 3/4in drive braker bar & at least a 4ft pipe. A 1/2in drive will most likely brake. It is much easer if your doing this with the axel mounted in the jeep so there is something holding the axel very well.  If that does not work then you might be able to rent a tork multiplyer. I have never used or needed one but hear there extreamly powerfull & over crushing a crush coller is very easy so be very carefull.  Setting crush sollers in a D30 are difficult so I can only imagine how tuff a GM14bolt crush coller is. Not shure this is the answer your looking for but hope it helps you.  Good luck
09 Rubi 4Dr,Compleat Heavy Duty Polly Performance skid plate system,Kilby Evap Relocation kit,Rampage front bumper,Swaybar motor flip,Clayton 3.5in lift w/steering corection kit,35in GY MTR's on 15in MB Wheels,Ace Enginering Rear Bumper W/Tire carrier,Prorock D44 Front axel,5.13s,cromo rear shafts

Offline gearhead1985B

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Re: Help
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 06:15:59 PM »
if it is for the crush sleave like skibum said lube threads and a long cheater pipe
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Offline Bill3753

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Re: Help
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 02:39:30 AM »
I hear what you guys are saying and for a standard rear axle I agree that is what you need to do.  My own experience in setting up other axles that use a crush sleeve (mainly, on 8.8's) I've done the same.  I've never been a huge fan of simply just taking a huge breaker bar, cheater bar, ect. as axles need to be set up with precision.  That means a torque wrench and sometimes a torque multiplier to accomplish the job.

Now, a 14 bolt is not your standard axle.  Trust me, I wanted to be able to just torque it down using the torque multiplier and torque wrench, but it just isn't happening.  The link below is an extremely detailed write up on gear set up for a 14 bolt.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-ARB/articles/14b_Gear_Setup/

I don't expect anyone to rear the whole thing, but I will say it is worth it for the tech and general theory behind gearing any axle.  Anyways, this is the main part I pulled from it to explain why you can't just torque it down and obtain proper bearing preload.

"The next step is the trickiest part of the whole procedure.  You need to press the front pinion bearing cone onto the pinion shaft, seating it in its race, without crushing the crush sleeve too much.  In order to get over the pinion shaft you'll need to use a tube to bear on the inner ring of the bearing cup.  You want to seat the bearing firmly, and even begin crushing the sleeve a little to begin setting pinion bearing preload.  This can save time and effort later when you are tightening the pinion nut to crush the sleeve and set final preload.  However, you don't want to go too far.  If you crush the sleeve too much at this point, you will find that later, when you go to tighten the pinion nut, bearing preload will be achieved before you get the pinion nut tight enough (once again - don't ask how I know this!).  On the other hand, if you just press the bearing on loosely, and don't even begin to crush the sleeve, you can have a hell of a job later, trying to start the sleeve crushing by tightening the pinion nut.  I've heard reports of it taking upwards of 500 ft/lbs - which requires a heck of an impact gun or a seriously sturdy bench/vice and a BIG breaker bar.  The trick is to use the press to seat the bearing and just start the sleeve crushing.  Once the sleeve has started crushing - it takes a lot less torque on the pinion nut to continue crushing it.  Like crushing a beer can in you hands - once it starts buckling it's much easier.  The best method is to press a little at a time and check frequently how tight the bearing is in its race.  Once again - too far, and you'll find yourself later at max bearing preload with the pinion nut torqued to only 100 ft/lbs - which isn't really tight enough to keep it tight.  If you do cock it up - you'll have to press the pinion out of the crush sleeve and front bearing cone, install a new crush sleeve, and start again.  I then reverted to a 3/4"-drive torque wrench to do the final tightening.  Tighten the pinion nut initially to 300-350 ft/lbs, then remove the torque wrench and yoke holder and take a reading of the torque required to rotate the pinion, using your in/lb torque wrench.  Proper pinion bearing preload is achieved when the torque required to rotate the pinion is 5-15 in/lbs for used bearings or 25-35 in/lbs for new bearings."

So anyways, like I said I wanted to be able to torque it down and call it good.  I still first started with my press though to follow the advise in that write up.  I can say 12 tons wasn't enough to crush the sleeve.  So, I then figured I'd try torquing it.  I initially tried up to 400 ft/lbs and it didn't even budge.  Today, we had it on Nate's 20 ton press.  Even with 20 tons of power it was still tough to do.  We were seriously cranking on the press to even start collapsing the crush sleeve. So then today after we started crushing the sleeve on the press we were able to finished it off with the torque multiplier / torque wrench combo.  At 400 ft/lbs of torque we had a perfect 30 in/lbs of preload.

So same 400 ft/lbs of torque with two very different results.  Without starting to collapse the crush sleeve I did nothing but pull a muscle in my back.  Seriously, I couldn't even seat the bearings.  With the crush sleeve started already on the press, 400 ft/lbs gave me my perfect bearing preload.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 02:45:35 AM by Bill3753 »
04 TJ, HP60, 14 Bolt, 5.13's, linked, locked, on 38's and (still) in the works.

Offline Flex

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Re: Help
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 02:47:21 AM »
just think smashing a beer can on ur head you really gotta get them moment up because it takes alot to get the initial crushing action happening. Now i can say i have done both.
2000 XJ Sport 6.5 inch TNT Longarms, 36" IROK Radials, HP dana 30, Ford 8.8 aussie locker, 4.10s, front bumper with stinger and 9500 mile maker winch, Rock Sliders, OBA. full exo cage, chopped.
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Offline skibum

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Re: Help
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2011, 03:27:00 AM »
I Figured that was giong to be a tough one.  I have broke three 1/2in SNAP ON braker bars just trying to set up the 30 or more D30's, D35's & D44's in all the 98 to 02 ZJ,WJ & XJ jeeps that Dana Corp screwed up. Most under warrentee of corse. Most had less than 15k on them. Don't miss that at all.  Love workin on Hondas. Much less Bull work.

Glad to hear you got it all set up.  Just supprised that the tork miltiplyer would not work for you. I have never used one but hear there very impressive.  When going to Training at Chrylser for Diff set up they did not recomend the Tork multiplyer because there so decevingly powerfull that it can stripp the treads on the pinion or even snap the pinion clean in 2.
09 Rubi 4Dr,Compleat Heavy Duty Polly Performance skid plate system,Kilby Evap Relocation kit,Rampage front bumper,Swaybar motor flip,Clayton 3.5in lift w/steering corection kit,35in GY MTR's on 15in MB Wheels,Ace Enginering Rear Bumper W/Tire carrier,Prorock D44 Front axel,5.13s,cromo rear shafts

Offline Bill3753

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Re: Help
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2011, 06:01:57 AM »
Just supprised that the tork miltiplyer would not work for you. I have never used one but hear there very impressive.  When going to Training at Chrylser for Diff set up they did not recomend the Tork multiplyer because there so decevingly powerfull that it can stripp the treads on the pinion or even snap the pinion clean in 2.

It worked, and worked great.  When I got to 400 ft/lbs and I still had not even started to fully seat the bearing let alone collapse the crush sleeve, I just decided I'd do it the way the write up recommended vice hurting myself even more (stupid back).  We used it with the final set up too.  Looking back at it I don't see any other way you'd do this axle without pressing it to start it out.  It reminded me of torquing the cylinder head on an industrial semi truck diesel.  When I did that job I was using about a 4-5 foot long 1" drive Snap On torque wrench.  It really is some serious torque to get this done.
04 TJ, HP60, 14 Bolt, 5.13's, linked, locked, on 38's and (still) in the works.