Bill's 1 Ton TJ Build

[Mr Rock]

Still as busy as ever, if not more.  I'm seriously trying to get thing thing done, but its tough with my schedule.  Getting in the garage here and there, but nothing steady.  I should be back out there more now and hoping to get it buttoned up, painted, and finished.  I just want to wheel already.

Hopefully I'll get to meet all the new members I've been reading about on here and I look forward to seeing the familiar ones again.  Schedule for 2013 looks great and with any luck I'll be able to participate.

See everyone soon.

Life has a way of rerailing our projects, glad to hear yours is back on track! Look forward to seeing you and Wes again!

[Bill3753]

So a mini update.  Still hatching out lighting (I think that was the last thing I talked about) as I'm 99% sure I burnt out the LED flasher.  I'm going to get another on order and then we'll know for sure.

The engine I got (see a few post back) is up for sale.  I'm just going to keep the 4.0 and use the cash from the LM7 small block to hopefully fund a cage and some other stuff.  Idea drive line wise is to auto swap an AW4 (or 727) behind my 4.0 (only has 60k miles) and then swap a xfer case behind that.  Not sure this will happen anytime soon, but who knows.  In an ideal world I get enough for the LM7 to fund a AW4/Stak or Atlas, but that's probably wishful thinking.

Up for work here in the more immediate future is sorting out my front suspension.  After a while away from it I went over everything once more and I'm not super happy with the lower control arm frame mounts for the front and am questioning their strength (partially do to some shady welds on my part I found).  I'm thinking I'd like to replace the frame mounts to the lower control arms with a more traditional mount welded to the bottom of the frame like I used in the rear 4 link.  While working this, I may weld in a upper control arm link bracket to swap to a 3 link.  Essentially, all of this will add a good gain in my up travel (about 2") up front while beefing up some crap that I rushed a while back.

Perfect time to do it is when the body work is all at paint (see my other post on this).  Other work that HAS to get done is wrapping up the steering by installing the lines for the hydro assist, mounting the PS fluid reservoir, and installing the new PS Pump.  The list of "little things" is long, but shrinking.  EVAP mounting, lights, bleeding brakes, bleeding the master cylinder, install front driveshaft.  Its all stuff like that, but it also all takes time.  Things on the list of I'd like to get done include wrapping up some sort of air tank and controls for OBA like Ed had on his TJ.  Currently, my AC pump is installed, but nothing is hooked to it.  If I leave it that way I'm sure it'll not like it when I try to complete the conversion later on.

Progress is there though.  Before ANYTHING else happens, the garage is in serious need of a deep cleaning.  I quit smoking a few months back and the smell of old butts is not to nice while trying to work.  Funny what you never notice isn't it.

[Bill3753]

So, bumping the ol' build thread back up with a question or the opinion of others.

I'm working the driveline on the Jeep and trying to button up what's left.  That said, the NV3550 5 speed is on the bench waiting on the gent who bought it to come get it this weekend.  I'm auto swapping.

What I need: An auto transmission that will bolts to my 4.0 (without expensive adapters) that also has a 23 spline output.  I am not 100% worried about the crank sensor as I made a template to know where to drill the bellhousing if need be.

Options I've found:

TF727 - add says "recently rebuilt by Bowie Trans svc in MD using a cummins rebuild set and a 4.3 ratio low/reverse apply arm. A new low stall Dacco converter comes with. I will toss in a flex plate for those wanting to put it behind a TJ/YJ 4.0. I drilled the case for a vent and plugged the FP vent. Never been used. I have NEW cables/brackets for use on a TJ. Cooler also included.  Advance adapters CPS relocation kit included."  He's asking $650.

TF999/A999 - I've seen a few ranging $150-$250, including one that is $200 and claims to be rebuilt.  I do know the TF727 and TF999 are very close to the same thing, with the TF727 being slightly stronger.  This route, I would need to find all the other swap parts.  Flex plate could be used from a TJ/XJ.

My worry with both the TF727/999 stems from the following I read on pirate4x4:

"TF727 Sprag failure results from shock loading the drivetrain in first or second gear, such as attempting to climb a slippery obstacle where a lot of throttle is used, and not quite making it. If you don't get off the throttle fast enough and the tires find traction when sliding back down, this is enough too pop the sprag. torque flights are well known for this problem, and to a lesser degree, pretty much any simpson design auto can experience this failure. In almost all situations, breaking the sprag ruins the case, and the only way to get the vehicle to move to manually shift the trans into L. Shifting into low applies the low/reverse band or clutch (depends on the trans) and this gives something for the low/reverse planet to hold against.

I broke my old TF727 3 times like that, but did not know that if the trans is in D and you start off from a dead stop, all of the engine torque is pushing on that sprag. Manually selecting L engages the low/reverse clutch and relieves that stress."

Should I be worried about this?  I know 727's are strong, but this kind of worries me.  This brings me to the final option I've considered.

AW4 - Found stock in XJ's and they're stong as all get up.  Can be had $100-$200.  I've read a lot of guys running these in buggies with great success.  Downfall to them is their length (about 2" longer then a 727/999) and they build a lot of heat.  A large cooler is needed to keep them happy.  Also, they're electronically controlled.  To go this route, I'd use shifters from here:  http://radesignsproducts.com/Home.php.  These basically use a set of solenoids to allow you to manually shift all gears, which is nice.  I'd also need a stock XJ shifter cable, but that's not a big deal.  AW4 has provisions to use the stoc crank sensor.  The flex plate could be sourced from a XJ/TJ stock.

Whatever route I go, the 4.0 is staying.  Also, I'd want the 23 spline output to match the transfer case I just scored.

I am kinda leaning toward the AW4.  Cheap, easy to find, and ultimately I think it may be stronger based on the sprag on 727's.  Really just wanted to see what others thought considering the info.  Also, are there any other options I'm missing?

[Mreecew]

The geared 727 sounds like a very good option, the lower gear in theory should help relieve some of the stress since it will be turning easier, but it could also cause a bigger issue if your very bound up. I'd go with an aw4, they are amazing, I can't believe the strength of them even unmodified. I'd go with an aw4 on a full manual set up just like with the rad designs shifters you mentioned before.

[Bill3753]

The 4.3 apply arm isn't the ratio of the first gear, but rather the ratio of the apply arm for the low gear apply arm on the band.  The higher ratio is suppose to make it hold harder, which in turn should help support the sprag more so long as I keep it in L so the apply arm is engaged.

[Mreecew]

Ahhhh I see, If thats the case I'd still go with the aw4 then, Cheap, stupid strong and reliable.

[Bill3753]

Starting to be the way I'm leaning on it.

[skibum]

AW4 is the way to go hands down. Also being an overdrive trans will work much better with the 5.13's on the road. A 3 speed is going to be tough on the road with 5.13's. Glad your back on the project.

[Bill3753]

Ya, so am I Bob.  I found a 2000 XJ AW4 today.  Guy had the transmission rebuilt, then the engine blew.  Should be getting it today for $250 with a lot of the swap parts I'll need.

For the transfer case, I scored a Stak 3 Speed Monster Box on pirate4x4 VERY cheap.  Excited to get it.  Bought it from the guy on pirate who repairs the popping out of gear problem some of these are know for.  He updates the intermediate shaft with his own CNC piece that people there say works great.  With this fix installed, it's going to be an awesome transfer case.  1:1, 3.01:1, and 5.44:1 ratios.

Body wise, I painted a lot of the armor yesterday.  Need to sand it a little then put a second coat on before putting it back together.

Lot more little stuff to do, but it's all getting there.

[Mreecew]

Ok thats pretty awesome that your gonna run a stak. I can only dream of those cases. That should make for one nice crawl ratio especially behind and automatic

[Bill3753]

Originally, I was planning to do a Dana 300, flipped with a HD output.  Priced out, roughly $200 for a stock Dana 300, $200 for a rebuilt kit, $400 for the HD output, and about another $200 in flipping it and shifters (that's going the cheap way) I was looking around $1000 and still having 2.6:1 gearing.  I'd also need to work out the speed sensor with this route.

I got the Stak, rebuilt by a known and reputable Stak rebuilder for $1200.  Needless to say, I couldn't pass it up.

With 5.13's in the axles, it should make for a good crawl.

[Mreecew]

I get that. Thats a great deal on a stak also. Should give you around 78:1, that will be real nice especially with the automatic.

[skibum]

Not sure if you already have a trans cooler but recomend the B&M one with it's own fan. That will keep the AW4 cool no matter what.

[Bill3753]

Got a little more done.  Still trying to get the same AW4.  Hopefully this weekend I'll have it and will be able to start bolting it all together.  If so, I'll get some pictures posted for a real update.